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Yeah.. my stepdad (whom I am very close to) came in for dinner tonight and said that he wouldn't watch South Park anymore because they took it too far. He said they said sometime about Jesus and pushed it to far. He watches this show like it were porn...
I told him he was a hypocrit in a sense. I mean they make fun of everyone! One half of my family is Jewish and I still watch it and when I watch it with him he laughs at the Jew jokes in front of me and I don't get offended. I don't remember anything about Jesus? I did miss the second part though. |
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In the episode, after the Family Guy skit (which was supposed to have Mohammed, but was censored,) al-Zawahiri released a "retaliation film" which featured a bunch of "Americans" crapping on each other, with Jesus joining, and then they were crapping on the American flag. And yes, your father is a hypocrite. You know, not just because of the Jewish jokes, but because of all the potshots they make at Chritianity, too. |
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We wouldn't be in the country if we believed that it were too risky to stay, on the contrary, we have plans set up in case the need to get out quickly ever arises. However, they're just that - backup plans. And we don't want to put them into use, especially when its because some goofballs are incapable of grasping the situation. Quote:
Anyone could get offended by whats on the show, it addresses issues with enough vulgarity that its not too much of a stretch, whether they be conservative Christians, Jews, or Muslims. It's not one particular group. |
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He is saying all this because of something he heard on the radio. |
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People who would make that much of a fuss over something as trivial as a freaking cartoon are either extremely unbalanced in the head and incapable of processing anything besides violence, or have life much easier than anyone here in the US as we have significantly bigger issues to worry about than who's drawn in a cartoon. Considering we rank above all those countries in higher standard of living, I'm willing to bet it's the first one. By censoring a show over the same thing they're making a fuss about, it's telling them that they're violent protests are okay, that violence is the answer and we should all live in fear and fear should govern all rights and freedoms and we should cower at their feet. And if we're going to go that far, hell, why not just kick out the government we have and welcome in our new leaders? Seriously...this is rediculous beyond all rediculousness. Instead of groveling at the feet of every fring lunatic group that wants to blow something up why not just tell them to chill the fuck out? Either way, I guess anyone in Al Qaida who made it into the US just needs to go live in whatever city Comedy Central is based out of so they'll have someone to whipe and kiss their asses whenever they want. Anyway, anyone else who wishes to stand up for free speech and against cowardice, I'm starting a boycott on Comedy Central until they decide to air the episode uncensored. |
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And stop calling it "caving in." |
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I absolutely get it, and I agree that they have the right to say what they wish. And it seems most discriminatory of the network to censor this topic, while they allow quite similar things to be joked about. The point of my argument was that going out of one's way to hurt or provoke another *for no reason other than to piss them off* doesn't seem like a great way to use one's freedom of expression. I'm not saying that is the case here, but it could very well be. That you or I don't feel that those insults are on par to an attack on one's person is immaterial by the way. My example was *supposed* to represent something that we could all agree is a dick move, since we can't adequately grasp how the mohamad pictures affect someone with such strong beliefs. But you instead take the opportunity for a 'Haha, they get mad at dumb stuff, not the not-dumb stuff that we would get mad at.' The motivations of the cartoonists are at the heart of the issue. If they are really trying to get across a message, then great. If they are just trying to start shit, then not so great. Either way, they should have the right to do so, and the network sucks for their stance on selective censorship. |
You guys don't really get it do you? This is a very different circumstance as was pointed out earlier. Did anyone poke fun at 9/11 right after it happened. Imagine South Park making fun of Bush right after the tragedy? I doubt that would be the right thing to do. And I would think that they refrain because guess what it would be their fellow Americans that their targetting.
The earlier episodes of Muhammed wasn't exactly hot before because there was no Danish outrage. This freedom clause is causing just a cycle of violence and insults. I don't expect any resolution to come of it if it were to continue. There have always been protesters about South Park (Jews, Scientologists, etc.) The only difference with this time is that the Muslim body has managed to amass a greater number than before. This incident is just way bigger and more sensotove than previous years. Should there be special treatment for Muslims? Hmm... the first question is: should they be judged using American standards? Considering that they're in a way different culture I don't this wholly applies. The freedom clause to them is an insult to their race and class. They don't see it as expression due to their very different culture and environment. I couldn't believe that there was an earlier generalization that majority of Muslims wanted to destroy Americans. This is the exact sentiment that Muslims and people around the world are against. It's racial prejudice in action. And no matter how much people rally nothing would be resolved. Bradylama earlier pointed out that diplomacy was the key. I agree yet the way that press freedom and oppression are being forced down each other's throats it's as if diplomacy was not a possibility. |
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I remember an arab cartoon that Adamgian posted which seemed apt, portraying Freedom of Speech in Denmark as ok so long as you're making fun of Islam. Adamgian also has a point about the portrayal of Arabs in the media. Comedy Central itself has Carlos Mencia come on every week attacking Arabs and Muslims, but he's a wetback so it's ok. The hypocrisy is astounding, especially considering that the specific episodes weren't insulting Islam. |
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(Yes I know it was the Danish embassy and not a house; I'm just taking it down to the personal level.) |
What Skexis is saying is that the Danish government's refusal to distance themselves from the opinions expressed in Jyllands-Posten doesn't come off as a protection of free speech, and more as a condoning of the act of insulting the Prophet.
People loved to champion the causes of the Danes despite their illegitamacy regarding the issue. |
Put that way, the logic seems much more sound. Thank you.
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Seriously... with the way things are going a few years down the road people will be able to claim racism unless you say nothing more than "hello" and in at least five different languages, but then they can still claim racism because you didn't include theirs. If you're going to worry about who's offended, why the hell even bother at all? Why even have anything on tv past the weather channel?
Everyboy Loves Raymond could be deemed offensive by people who think life should be taken too seriously for jokes. Star Wars could be deemed racist because entire movies in the series had no black people and the one black character it did have got killed. Monkey Ball could be deemed offensive as it has monkeys trapped in balls. Football could be deemed sexist as very few women play. Might as well not teach World War 2 in history anymore either. I'm sure Italians or people with Italian heritage might get offended over hearing about what their great country took part in. Same goes for Germans and Japanese. Also, I don't like hearing bad news. Maybe that means all news stations in the Cleveland area should shut down? I know I'm only one in millions of people who live around here, but hey, who cares? One person doesn't like what's being said. You have to draw the line somewhere, and the only way to truly be fair is to either allow everything or allow nothing at all, and free speech is too vital to deny. This is a place where when things got started the general idea was that just because a single group of people were opposed to something didn't mean that it automatically had to be censored. I guess we sure raped that one up the ass, didn't we? |
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On your second point, I really am sick of people saying blacks (and women) are deprived of equal pay and equal opportunities. Racism still exists, sure, but it is not as widespread as it used to be. I have plenty of black co-workers, and I can say beyond a doubt that they are not held back. Also, as a woman, I definitely can not complain about my opportunities and pay. This is 2006, things are not quite as severe as they used to be. There is still unfair bias (such as people who do not know me thinking I am not that tough because I am a woman), and sure it takes extra work to prove yourself, but hey, that is life. I have no problem with it. In fact, I have to admit that it is quite entertaining to prove people wrong about me. Quote:
Honestly, if it were up to me, I would sit down with the Israelis and the Palestinians and say: "Look, start getting along or maybe we will just have to take over to make you get along. The United States gets along well enough as a melting pot, so why is it you people seem unable to freaking share?" Israel has done its fair share of wrong, but as of right now, I believe Palestine has done a greater share of wrong. Quote:
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Better yet, since I am highly offended by the Muslims' gross human rights violations and their blatant mistreatment of women, should I go and threaten to blow up their homes and businesses and such in an attempt to force them to change? I mean, if it is good for the goose, it is good for the gander, right? I thought not. Quote:
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As the saying goes, sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me. In the case of Muslims, those stones kill women who violate religious law. Quote:
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Anyway, I think a thread name change is in order. "South Park vs Religion" is misleading. It should be something more like "CC caves to muslim radicals demands"
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Freedom of speech exists so that no matter who you are and what you think, you have the right to voice those opinions in any forum. Of course, you can't say anything anywhere. If you went to the Anti-Defamation League and said that the 12 Jew Bankers were using Orthodox Judaism to take us off the Gold Standard and crush the United States in debt, they'd be well within their rights to eject you from the premises. If you go out in public with a megaphone and shouted "Niggers need to go back to Africa!" that's making a nuisance of yourself, and is called Disturbing the Peace. There are acceptable boundaries for the expression of one's opinion, but ultimately the point is that one should be able to express it. Freedom of Speech only exists because the rule of law allows us to voice our thoughts without the fear of reprisal, and that's what the "Family Guy" episode was trying to get across. If people are kept from voicing their opinions out of fear, then we have no freedom of speech. That said, it's well within the rights of Comedy Central to censor certain materials in the best interest of the company. I mean, they didn't show tits when they aired those crappy teen movies, right? Nobody has been denied the First Ammendment, the problem however, is that we've allowed it to become undermined due to intimidation. |
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To wit, the content itself is fiction and should not be taken seriously, but the underlying message is still there, under the fiction. That's how such messages work. Quote:
Basically, there is no shade of gray here. The Muslims are overreacting, and badly. Those overrations are causing companies to make decisions they would not otherwise make, decisions being made out of fear. Basing decisions on fear for reprisal is the very definition of terrorism. So yes, in this case, I do believe it's black and white. |
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Ultimately I basically can't agree with Skexis, though. I'd rather live in an environment where I can hurt people's feelings and be treated in kind. |
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There is also a basic misunderstanding among people as to freedom of speech. Comedy Central understood that freedom of speech doesn't mean that the speech is without consequences. In Houston some restaraunt workers were fired because they didn't show up for work when they attended the anti immigration protests. They are now being represented by an advocacy group saying that they were punished for exercising their freedom of speech, when in reality they're being punished because they neglected to show up for work. I'm sure Comedy Central weighed its options and said, Meh..its just not worth the hassle. That being said, I think their decision was very hypocritical in light all the other South Park episodes. Apparently all these easily offended people are incapable of changing the channel. |
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Sure Muslims over react to things, but what do you suggest to change this? If someone is offended when you do a thing, does doing it over and over again really improve things? I'm just wondering what you hope to have changed and how. |
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Let them complain, but do not bow down to them. If they then attack us, then we attack them back and show them where the power lies. I guarantee if some guy attacked me for insulting him, I would put him in the morgue in the blink of an eye. That, my friends, is self-defense. The bottom line, though, is that you do not answer insult with violence; violence is only acceptable when the target does something, well, violent. South Park is not harming anyone, period, that is fact. As such, threatening violence would be crossing the line. I say let this stuff air to send a message to all Americans: do not be intimidated. Let them try their worst, and when they do, they will regret it. |
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