If you're a fan of the gameplay, there's nothing wrong with enjoying the grinding. It's not like having fun isn't the entire point of playing in the first place.

Grinding as a forced extension of length is just poor design though, and often results in detracting from the overall experience instead of adding to it. That's all they were saying. But if you actually enjoy it, more power to you.

GRINDAN,you say?
http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/3842/grinderzb2.jpg

I'm really impressed by you guys,though. For once,there's an actual Castlevania discussion by people who have a deep knowledge,understanding and affection for the series. Jolly good show,old chaps.

That said,I really need to catch up to my Metroidvanias. Of the handheld ones,the only ones I played so far are Circle of the Moon and Portrait of Ruin (in progress at the mo),though I certainly intend to play every one out there (in b4 slowpoke). I have Dawn of Sorrow,but I'm not going to play it until after I've bought and beaten the shit out of Aria of Sorrow.

As annoying as GRINDAN is,it's ultimately voluntary (rare drops aren't required to beat the game on any of the endings),so if you do it,you obviously do derive some masochistic OCD pleasure out of it. I certainly do on some level,so I don't mind it as much. I know I'll do it anyway.

That said,the drop rate in PoR is BULLSHIT. I mean,jesus christ. Pretty much the only thing my Charlotte does nowadays is run around casting Luck Boost nonstop. I'm not even sure it does anything. Sometimes I see the star ratings on drops go down as she does it. Does that mean they become more likely to appear? Am I doin it rite?

Overall,though,I really like PoR. The lengths Iga went to to squeeze the game into the chronology right after Bloodlines really impressed me. I mean,when it's revealed that Wind is in actuality
[SPOILERS]Eric Lecarde[/SPOILERS]
,bricks were shat. Plus the whole WHAT A TWIST with the Vampire Killer and the Belmonts,and the Morris' and whatnot was pretty interesting (Whip's Memory,fuck yeah!). The whole premise with the portraits (btw lolwut,since none of the pictures you go through in the game are,you know,portraits) allows you to go into all sorts of crazy places without physically venturing outside of Castlevania. Abandoned schoolhouse (wut) in the middle of a swampland,trippy circus freakshow mindfuck (definitely one of the more original environments in a Castlevania game)and a goddamn Egyptian pyramid. AWESOME. Not too hot on the whole second palette-swapped visit part,but eh,there's enough differences between the the old portarait and the new one that I usually don't mind. The characters' little animations (especially Charlotte's) are adorable. Weapon upgrades are great. I'm having a blast so far.

As for the new one,fuck yeah,female protagonist! It's going to be at least on par with the other handheld Castlevanias,so I'm definitely looking forward to it.

I really like the two DS vanias, and it's great to see some news about the sequel.
However. It reminds me even more that hell - we need a 2D Metroid for the DS.

Certainly, and that's why I considered my rant off-topic. Castleroids for the most part avoid the artificial game lengthening bullshit that other games try like fighting all the bosses over again for no reason, and side quests that don't add to the game at all. Yes, some voluntary grinding on side quests that aren't necessary for the full enjoyment of the game can be healthy, god knows I've grinded out rare items and overleveled shit just for the hell of it before.

Can I get an amen? I'm tired of desperately following rumors of new GBA, DS and WiiWare Metroids, either release a new one soon (not likely) or at least tell us not to expect one (even more full of unlikeliness). 2D metroid is a perfect example of a series of amazing games that don't pretend to be something more than they are.

Some people like fighting bosses all over again. Of course, they have to be good in the first place ay. A good boss is hard to start with, but easier with experience, yet still a fair challenge e.g. DoS/PoR Death (more the former).

Re: 2D Metroids. The series is still fresh - and Nintendo are wise to keep it that way. Fusion wasn't all it was cracked up to be, and Return of Samus? Ick. That leaves only ZM and Super, which is only two games. I dunno what I'm on about exactly when I write this, but I DO wish to see another one of ZM quality, albeit 3-4 times in length, sometime soon.

I totally agree. But then it's not like any of the Castleroids have forced you to grind right? You can skip any kind of collecting and just run through the game if you want to.

I mean, Fusion and Zero Mission (my personal favorite Metroid) did wonderful on GBA. Metroid is like Nintendo's coolest series, and it should be natural for it to get a couple of games on the DS - preferrably 2D if you ask me. Although being fairly quiet, there has to be some freaking demand among the fans?

EDIT: Oh and I have to give DoS kudos for it's alternative extended ending. That was awesome.

Eh,Zero Mission,as much of a nostalgia bomb as it is,annoyed me greatly. The main reason would be the bullshit amount of backtracking required to get 100% completion. People derided Fusion for generally restricting the amount of exploration,but what Zero Mission took it to another extreme. Super was,of course,the perfect balance,no doubt about that.

Speaking of Fusion,it's definitely my favorite in the entire series. I generally end up enjoying the red-headed bastard stepchildren in any given series the most (my favorite RE is the third one,my favorite Golden Axe is the third one,ect.),because the reason they are declared the bastard stepchildren is usually because they try to introduce some radically new elements into the stale series,and I always appreciate such boldness. Fusion introduced an actual storyline,something the Metroid series has long been starving for.
That and it's the creepiest game in the franchise.
SA-X made me shit a fucking brickhouse every time she appeared.
OH GEEZ FUCK SHE'S HERE RUN RUN RUN OH SHIT IT'S DEAD END FUCK I'M GONNA DIE QUICK HIDE UNDER THE FLOOR GOD I HOPE SHE DOESN'T HEAR ME FUCK ME!1!1
Don't even get me started on Nightmare.

Epic game is epic.

I'm not even sure Resident Evil 3 would be considered that, wouldn't that be RE4 technically considering, despite it's success, it was still, by your definition the red-headed stepchild of the series? It definitely did piss off a lot of hardcore fans with how drastically the formula changed anyway.

Anywho, I think most people just didn't like Fusion because of the "less talky more walky" mindset. It had a lot more un-skippable story elements which bogged it down as a "Metroid" title. I played through it once and loved it, but quickly realised it was not a good game to replay, which pretty much every other game had been up to that point and afterwards too. (Never played Prime 3 so I dunno about that one)

I don't think the dialogue killed Fusion for a lot of players. It was all too linear and hand-holding for a Metroid game. Prime 3 suffers from this too on a lesser scale, and is mostly a great game because of the grapple beam and fuck awesome controls. Prime 2, on the other hand, suffered from too much backtracking: it's just paced too slow. I still loved Fusion, but it didn't have a Metroid feel at times because of the wierdness, and instead, just felt like some great fan-service piece, especially with the twists at the end.

Prime 1 and 2 sprinkled the artificial game-lengthener into their product with the end game artifact hunts that NO ONE LIKED. There was another scavenger hunt in 3, but honestly, by the time the game told me to find the energy cells, I had all but one of them already just from playing the game, although this is sadly mostly due to one of Prime 3's largest flaws: a distinct lack of difficulty. Once you get used to the controls, and learn that corrupted mode is unstoppable and completely abusable, you'll blaze through.

RE3 is a black sheep of the series due to the obvious lack of effort put into it. That's why some people (like myself) consider RECV to be more of a full-fledged sequel in the series than RE3 was.

As for RE4, it's a good action game, but it doesn't feel like an RE title. I can understand why the hardcore fans would feel a bit bothered by that one too.

That along with the frequent dialog parts definitely made the game feel less like a true Metroid title. The problem with Fusion is that the mission-based approach kills the sense of exploration that defines the Metroid series. I actually thought it was kind of cool to have a story as well, but I preferred the less invasive way in which Metroid Prime handled it. It breaks the sense of atmosphere and isolation to be answering calls while you're exploring an alien world. Metroid Prime 2 also irked me with the Chozo guy ordering you around and I haven't played MP3.

That and the Chozo Ghosts were kind of annoying in Prime 1, but I still think the game was a masterpiece, and it was my favorite title of the PS2/GC/Xbox era.

Oh yeah, the Castlevania discussion... Well, the new game probably won't be better than SOTN, but I'm sure it'll be fun. Either way, my favorite Castlevania (Dracula's Curse) isn't going to be threatened by yet another Metroidvania.

I liked having story in my Metroid games. Prime perhaps had it better with the less invasive backstory. Fusion was good, but like the 3-D games it felt sequence-break unfriendly.

As for Castlevania, I hope they keep busting out the unique level themes (the circus, The Abyss, etc.). So far I only see the pirate ship but all the other screens look typical fare.

Try playing through it again.
From what I know,the game doesn't really allow to stray from the main storyline path on your first walkthrough. It's physically impossible to obtain 100% on your first run. However,on subsequent runs,the hatches that lock you inside or outside of the lab sectors supposedly remain open,allowng for actual freedom of exploration,just like in any other Metroid title.
Bastard stepchildren usually don't end up being multimillion hits and the most successful games in the series that finally bring it out of the bog of repetition and stagnation. Butthurt fucking fans bawwwing "IT GOTS NO ZOMBIES SO IT'S NOT A REAL RE!1!!!1" doesn't change that.
As for RE3,I love it for the improved gameplay,the opportunity to explore environments from RE2 and,of course,Nemesis. I was a wee young lad,and that was my first real experience with a "terrifying invincible monster stalker" mechanic in a horror game. Naturally,I shat enough bricks to build the house that I live in right now. I don't think I was ever more scared of a monster in vidya than I was of Nemesis at that point.
Then I beat Mercenaries and earned enough money to buy myself a ROCKET LAWNCHAIR. Nemesis isn't that scary anymore. =(
In Fusion's defense,it helps that you are talking to a soulless automaton rather than an actual being. And to balance out those breaks,the rest of the game is way creepier than even Super ever was. Creepy in lots of subtle ways that you won't really get until you think about it really hard. Fusion is actually the closest in atmosphere and spirit to the movie that inspired it - the Alien franchise. I can elaborate,if you want.
Agreed on both counts. Chozo ghosts were ass.

To get back on the topic of Castlevania again:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...l/img_0265.jpg

First female lead in a Metroidvania. I love how Igarashi hates Sonia Belmont. Eh, no biggie. Sounds like we're gonna be getting standard fare here.

Well, like most sane people, he doesn't really want to remember Legends. Can't say I really blame him for that.

Castlevania Legends on the Gameboy was fine. I'm assuming you're referring to the Dreamcast abomination.

Castlevania Legends also wasn't a Metroidvania anyway... It was classic style platformer and it was alright for a gameboy game I guess, but I honestly couldn't get into it. Still, it claims "first time" period really, so it is funny to see him hate on her so hard he refuses to even acknowledge she existed at all.

Edit: My bad, that was the point in your post, I misread since I'm tired and on my way to bed. I guess we are in complete agreement then.

Look, I already talked to Skills about this, but I bring up Legends because every time the subject of a woman comes up in Castlevania... they're generally subordinate or outright fucking helpless. The only reason Igarashi brought up Legends was to say it never happened, which I find funny because it was solely for the storyline stuff. Nevermind that it was as "to formula" to Castlevanias back then as his are now.

The reason that Sonia's been retconned out of this shit was not my point. Legends was wholly dull and uninspired. It was basically a more boring version of Belmont's Revenge. Hell, the fact that it doesn't do the "Metroidvania" thing was beside the point. In a series already full of extremely similar titles, it was *too* cookiecutter. I couldn't care less about it if I tried.

EDIT: Mo0 makes sandwiches, Skills is an ass(hole), I make fun of Igarashi for bringing up a game that no one remembered anyway for the sole purpose of women hating, and Castlevania Legends is also not worth remembering but was brought up anyway for various retarded reasons.

But we have this already. It's called item crashing.

But can't wait due to said descriptions.

Guess what. The trailer is out. Check it out

I'm real happy that they've abandoned the old "manga-like" art that they've used in the previous DS games.
I have to say that the graphics in this game seems to have improved, it seems more fluid and the background areas look amazing (I mean, just look at the water area with a boat in the bg).
Gameplay looks very interesting, and I can't wait to actually get a feel of how extensive the Glyph system really is.
The music in the trailer sounds great so I can't wait to hear the whole OST.

I'm not usually too hyped about games nowadays, but this trailer was smokin' and it seems like the game will be as well.

The trailer's in English, so it looks like we'll have the game soon. I myself can't wait. Screw next gen, the DS has EVERY DAMN THING.

YouTube - Castlevania Order of Ecclesia First Video

Also Youtube link if the site's too retarded for you.

So, basically, traditional MP has been replaced with a stamina bar that recharges when the player takes no action. I think I'm okay with that kind of system.