Wrong.

Go back and read, fool. We've said it over and over again. You just don't read English, I guess.

Pray that you learn. I bet that will solve the problem!
Is what the reality of our blah blah blah?

We've said what we use to guide us through life, dolt. If you're confused, learn to read more closely.

No, we didn't say you're going the wrong way. I have said AT LEAST A DOZEN TIMES that you are, by all means, entitled to believe whatever you want to believe, PROVIDED you don't IMPOSE ON OTHERS, AND THEIR BELIEFS.

I hope that was clear enough that time.

NO ONE IS PERFECT (for the FIFTH time). People did "good" before your Jesus and your god ever came around, LordSword. Jesus and Christianity didn't INVENT good people.

Cut the scripture shit out, would you? If you want to post preachy crap, go to a Bible forum.

This is the parth that confuses me.
Its ok for you to impose on others what YOU believe but I cant?

You've done it in bold capital letters again & again!

Do as I say but not as I do. Sounds like my drunken, angry atheist father, you must have read the same book he did.

At which point in time did *I* personally impose ANYTHING on you?

I recommended you use your head. I recommend that to ANYONE who isn't thinking clearly. When I have to repeat myself five times for you to hear me clearly, obviously you need that recommendation.

If someone ASKS me about what I believe, I'll be happy to share. But I won't EVER ask a Christian (or any religion) to BELIEVE IN WHAT I BELIEVE. That's wrong. It's not nice. It's not respectful.

You have been VERY disrespectful this entire time, LordSword.

And where would that be? The part where I say "I'm not INTERESTED in your religion! Please stop telling me WHAT I SHOULD BELIEVE" ??

'Cause that's not IMPOSING on you at all. Would you like me to look up the definition for you?

Sounds like your god.

There is no book for atheism, ahahaha what the FUCK are you talking about?

I'm sorry you had a bad childhood. So did I! But that doesn't mean we're all going to turn to religion to save us.

Bold text, harsh statements & coarse language to start. Your repeated recommendations come across like some drill sergeant.

My religion means respect. I am called to refrain from yelling, cursing, or anything that makes me harm the message I am encouraged to send which is "believe in Jesus Christ for eternal life". You show me by the way you send your recommendations of what you mean by "a good person".

The rules of respect I follow do work & I hope I have done a good job in modeling them thus far. As for passing judgment on the practice of my beliefs and on a God you don't know, you show me your version of respect of other people and their beliefs. You have no respect because you have no foundation for defining such a concept. If you do you dont show it.

O, so to you, bold repetitive text is harsh. Well, maybe if you read the first time things were said, I wouldn't have to make points flash like neon bar signs.

Then learn to read the first time around. You're not winning this one, buddy.

The only recommendation I make is "educate yourself."

Apart from that, I have no fucking clue what you're talking about. I don't advise anyone spiritually.

I assure you, you haven't.

I grew up Roman Catholic, kid. I was given the option to continue with my Bible studies or explore other options by my parents when I was entering my teens. I told them I didn't believe a word of it.

They respected that and let me believe what I wanted. Because that's what it's all about. Personal. choice. Just like your god says. You should understand this very easily.

Because I curse, I have no respect.

Because I get FRUSTRATED when you repeatedly neither comprehend or READ anything any of us write, I am disrespectful.

You're are the most dense, ignorant person I have ever come across on the internet.

Suppose I did read your posts. Consider that I know how you would react.

You dont believe my testimony or that of the bible. Your recommendations have been taken into account. Ok.

I still have a book to follow and not your statements. Sorry. My religion means following the texts in my book the bible & not the words of people.

Good. Read your Bible, study up. Live your life.

But don't expect us to sit here and listen peacefully when you preach.

I still don't know what this has to do with Stephen Hawkings.

The same thing that makes me sure that the people in institutions aren't really Napoleon.

This doesn't answer my question. There are a vast amount of people who know about Christianity but aren't Christians, why do you think that is?

Why don't you just get one of these.

'And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;'

You obviously have a different definition of evidence than everybody else.

If you can prove that your prayers are answered then by all means prove it.

I still don't understand what your fathers atheism has to do with anything. I'm sure that he also drank water and quite frankly that has as much to do with his morality as his atheism does. You've probably got atheism and nihilism mixed up, that would explain the fact that you seem to believe that athiests believe in nothing.

I think you misunderstood me. Agnostics are the fence sitters who in the fullness of time will [should] eventually become a theist or an atheist once the evidence or argument persuades them in one direction or the other. I would divide agnosticism into 2 categories: weak agnosticism and strong agnosticism; those who do not know versus those who believe we cannot know. But inside this, and this is where I disagree, the agnostics try to claim that despite there being no evidence in support of a all loving, sin forgiving, universe creating God, the possibility for the existence of this God should be weighed equally against its non-existence. From this however, I do not understand how an agnostic can think both theism and atheism are false views. The atheist is simply saying that whatever process it was that began the universe and life; it is not to be attributed to a prime mover, who aside from creating universes, also forgives sins and answers prayers. What do you mean by other options to be considered?


Precisely. As an agnostic you certainly have a damaging argument against yourself. When you have the intellectual honesty to understand why you're an atheist in regards to the thousands of dead Gods which our ancestors believed in, you will understand why I am an atheist in regards to the Gods people believe in present day.


I have a slight lean towards nihilism in that I don’t believe life has an objective meaning or purpose. I think it is a nonsensical question anyway. I am as close to certain as I can be that the universe was not created specifically for me so I could be here right now neither to participate in this discussion nor to play Guitar Hero 2 when time permits. As for the process of evolution which brought me here, it too did not intend for me to be here. Evolution does not know I am here. It won’t notice when I am gone. The stars look down, that’s all they do; they don’t care. My body does not contain an immaterial soul. At the instant of the destruction of my brain my consciousness will end with nothing beyond: no eternal hellfire, no heavenly paradise. We’re the only species on the planet that knows it is going to die. If I manage to hold out long enough I will witness the death of everyone I will have come to love. Instead of falling into wish thinking, I decide to take on this astonishing fact with some intellectual and moral courage.

It's entirely incorrect to label atheism as just another religion. Everything I described above may be a necessary condition for atheism but it is not a sufficient condition. The word itself, atheism, is really a non sequitur. If I were to say I am an a-Communist, this would say nothing about what form of goverment I do believe works. A-Monetarist says nothing about which economical theory I do believe works, et cetera.


Well, scientists are humans too, so no one should be the least surprised when a few of them put their faith in the scriptures ahead of the evidence of their corresponding field of research. Are you familiar with Pierre Simon Laplace? He’s the French mathematician who published the Celestial Mechanics in which he describes the motion of the planets and is the first person to talk about black holes among other things. After the critics read his work they came back to Laplace and said something of the sort; “well we see you’ve written about the system of the universe but there is no mention of God.” In one of my favourite quotes Laplace politely replies, “Sir I had no need to make such an assumption.” Laplace’s equations for planetary motion worked just as well without the need to mention God. This is what makes scientific understanding so elegant. There is no need to make a footnote on every page with: And God did it. It adds nothing useful.

I have the bible on audio CD. My study of the scriptures has come along way with that.


With all the different systems of belief in the world, do really you mean everybody, or just people who live up to your standards?

I would love to. My prayer is for another person with the same message as mine will approach you in person. This person will be more adept with the bible than I and more educated to boot. Most importantly despite your current stand, you will want to listen to what this person has to say.

I have seen many here respond just like he did in this discussion.
It the way an atheist acts that I am keen to. His brother my uncle has the same mentality. I have mixed it up with atheists for a long time and see the same predictable pattern. Even if they are aware of it they still cant help themselves.


Thank you very much. I appreciate this frank & honest answer. Of all the people I chat with you are one of the very few who has been so open.

What is courage in the face of a meaningless existence?

It is still another belief system that affects a persons decision making. True there are different shades but often people shape their belief system to fit their comfort.

I mean anyone who has a standard english dictionary.

Is there any particular time-limit on this prayer, because if there isn't then short of replying to this post on my death-bed there's not a lot a can do to disprove it since you can just say that it will 'happen in the future'. How about something a little more concrete.

What response was that? The majority of the respondees only seem to be quite irritated that you fail to offer any evidence for your position despite repeatedly saying that you have some (although your lack of understanding of what evidence actually means might explain this). Your posts have painted you as a person who is amazingly stubborn and pig-headed, and refuses to listen to anything that challenges his pre-conceptions. All of your arguements have been dissected and dismantled yet you persist in trotting them out as though they were somehow new and impervious to criticism. Before casting blame on others I suggest you try to look at your posts with a neutral point of view in the hope you can see how irritating they are.

I'm not really sure which gods you're talking about. I mean, if you're talking about the Great Turtle upon whose back the Earth rests, well, I can understand not believing in it. But why should I deny the possibility of the existence of a god which exists outside of our universe even if its believers are gone? Why do the people with the correct set of beliefs have to roam the Earth today? Why can't the right answer be none of the ones proposed so far?

Do you even understand what "courage" means? Courage is about steeling yourself to press forward in spite of great fear and foreboding. Believing firmly that existence is utterly meaningless and still resolving to grind through it is deeply courageous. If you firmly believe that in the end everything will be all right and we'll all get mai-tais in Heaven, you don't need any courage because, for you, there is nothing to fear.

It could be, but what reasons are there for thinking it might be?

Well, if so many people have been wrong in the past (though I suppose we can't even verify that) what are the odds people are right today when it's really just a shot in the dark?

When we were wrong on the past it was often because of superstition, whereas now the scientific method means that we are getting things wrong less and less.

From this perspective, why would it even matter??

I guess that's the atheist in me speaking. =/

So you have faith in the scientific method, then :3333:

No, becase the scientific method has proven itself to work time and time again, while faith means having a belief in something despite lack of evidence.

When you get sick do you pray or go to a doctor?

That's an interesting notion, since doctors can't always cure you. You have faith that they will. You trust them.

It's an abstract faith, and I don't think it can be applied to religion as Pang implies. But faith no less.

There are multiple definitions of "faith", and each slightly different.
Atheists should be quick to stop damning the word "faith", or, at the very least, specify which "faith" they mean.

Thank you. I am glad someone else can do some of the gruntwork of actually reading the dictionary around here. The broad concept of faith is in no way necessarily tied to the absence of proof. It is, more or less, just a concrete assumption.

I have faith that alcohol will make me drunk.

I have faith that my cat won't learn to play basketball.

I have faith that the burgers I am frying up will be delicious.

But can I PROVE that these things will be true? Not in the slightest. They are simply things I assume to be true based on my previous experience.

Other than using the scientific method to measure things outside of its ability to be measured (it's fairly difficult to conduct controlled experiments when dealing with gods, I imagine), using induction to prove itself is also a little bit of a fun thing.

PS: Still waiting on science to come up with a test for free will.

Something that I heard from a friend that I never confirmed- supposedly thier is a site called God-tube, a spoof of youtube, and porntube, which proves that god exists by use of a bannana...

Oh God. (You had to bring that up.) However, since it pretty much makes argument in favour of God "all the more convincing", I don't see why I shouldn't post it.

Bananas: Proof that God exists....