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-   -   [Wii] The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess Discussion Thread (http://www.gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28)

Grawl Dec 27, 2006 10:08 AM
Just finished Zelda: Toilet Princess. The last three temples were pretty boring and the game was obviously rushed near the end. Still not a bad game though, I enjoyed it for most parts.

Matt Dec 27, 2006 11:08 AM
Were you disappointed by the end as well?

Compared to Wind Waker's dramatic climax, Twilight Princess built itself up and then just fizzled in the end.
Final fight complaints:
Zant seemed all-powerful throughout the game, but when you fought him and figured out his gimmick, he was a push-over. Even during the sword combat Zant finale he was easy. Hell, I let him hit me more than a few times and I still felled him.

And don't even get me started on Ganon.
That final horseback fight was fun but way too short. It was harder fighting that Troll overlord guy in Hyrule Field though, so negative kudos for that.
His pig form was a pushover, literally.
His final form was great, but too short as well.

Grawl Dec 27, 2006 11:15 AM
My thoughts on what you said:

Spoiler:
I liked the ending, but I don't get why Midna destroys the mirror. Doesn't she want to see Link again?

Zant was kinda fun to fight, but only because you could replay some of the previous (mini-)bosses. The fight itself was too short.

Ganon's first form was great. Good old OoT reference there and Ganon uses some nasty moves (the Triforce on the ground, dashing towards you).
The second form was a bit too easy once you got the idea. I got stuck a bit, because I forgot to pull out my sword after shooting him in the head with an arrow, thus not damaging him.
The third form was annoying and made me lose most of my hearts. I feared I'd die right there. Then suddely Zelda manages to shoot him three times in a row and I defeat him without any further problems.
The fourth form was fun, but too easy. Just wait for a certain attack, then tap A, tap A some more and hit him. Doing a backstab also worked against Ganondorf.


Double Post:
http://www.vgcats.com/comics/images/061227.jpg

Cellius Dec 28, 2006 10:14 PM
I finished it last night. For some damn reason I could not figure out
Spoiler:
the second form of Ganon for about twenty minutes and was getting really pissed because Midna's hints weren't helping at all. I started having negative thoughts about the whole game because of how ridiculous it was getting just watching Beast Ganon tear around the room.

At any rate I finally figured it out and was ecstatic during the final two fights with Ganondorf. I would have liked a bit more interaction between Link, Zelda, and Midna during the ending though. There really was a lot of potential with Midna's character that I think many people are enamoured with.


Overall I'm pretty satisfied. Sidequest are pretty fun in Zelda games and I guess I would have liked to see a few more.

Prime Blue Dec 29, 2006 05:30 AM
Spoiler:

I guess she destroyed the Mirror of Twilight because of two (possibly three) reasons:

1. "Light and shadow can't mix, as we all know."
2. She was probably afraid of someone breaking the mirror again - she knew of the evil might of the mirror shards that could transform people into monsters and didn't want that to happen again.
3. At the end it seemed like she had some feelings for Link ("I... See you later." or the scene in the Gerudo Desert in which she touches Link's face so gently) and she just didn't want the two of them falling in love with each other after all. Either because it's just not right for a Twili to be together with a Hylian or to be considerate of possible feelings of Ilia/Zelda.


Also, here my new timeline theory:

TMC - FS - OoT (Child Ending) - MM - TP - ALttP - OoX - LA - TAoL - TLoZ

TMC - FS - OoT (Adult Ending) - TWW - PH - FSA

Grubdog Dec 29, 2006 07:44 AM
THERE IS NO TIMELINE
Spoiler:
Quote:
At the end it seemed like she had some feelings for Link ("I... See you later." or the scene in the Gerudo Desert in which she touches Link's face so gently) and she just didn't want the two of them falling in love with each other after all. Either because it's just not right for a Twili to be together with a Hylian or to be considerate of possible feelings of Ilia/Zelda.
Actually I thought she really wanted Link to stop her, but it was Links call and he didn't, either because he didn't actually know (being a hero and only focusing on saving the world not picking up Midnas hints) or because he had another girl in mind. That's why I felt sad for Midna

Forsety Dec 29, 2006 08:07 AM
THERE IS NO GRUBDOG

Matt Dec 29, 2006 11:16 AM
TMC = The Minish Cap?

And what's this "two endings in Ocarina" jive?

Cellius Dec 29, 2006 12:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt (Post 353149)
And what's this "two endings in Ocarina" jive?
It's this ridiculous contrivance that some people buy into in a poor attempt to justify a sensible timeline for the games. They claim that time was split at the end of the game, so there's a timeline that follows child Link and one that follows adult Link. Stupid. I wish people would stop trying to organize the Zelda series into a single line by making up shit and just enjoy the stories as individual, unrelated adventures (with the exception of those games that explicitly mention events in other games, obviously).

Prime Blue Dec 29, 2006 02:07 PM
Oh, Grubdog said there is no timeline. Must be true since he used capital letters. ;)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellius (Post 353173)
It's this ridiculous contrivance that some people buy into in a poor attempt to justify a sensible timeline for the games. They claim that time was split at the end of the game, so there's a timeline that follows child Link and one that follows adult Link. Stupid. I wish people would stop trying to organize the Zelda series into a single line by making up shit and just enjoy the stories as individual, unrelated adventures.
Making theories about how exactly the games connect is actually a game itself I play everytime after beating a Zelda title. More fun for me.

Spoiler:
The split timeline is not "stupid" if you pay close attention to the events in TP. Ganondorf vowed revenge after he was defeated in OoT and wanted to kill the descendants of Link and Zelda. He would have adressed the two of them with a few words in TP if he was so eager to kill them. He doesn't recognise the Master Sword either.

1. Ganondorf gets into the Sacred Realm and touches the Triforce splitting it into three parts -> He kills the seven Sages (maybe the same Sages as in TP) because he feels threatened by them -> Adult Link awakens new Sages -> Ganondorf is defeated and sealed in the Sacred Realm in adult Link's timeline -> Hundreds of years later Ganondorf breaks the seal but since the Hero of Time doesn't exist anymore in this timeline the Godesses see no other possibility than flooding Hyrule -> Link collects his Triforce and defeats Ganondorf -> Link and Tetra set out to find a new Hyrule -> Events of "Phantom Hourglass" -> Events of "Four Swords Adventures" (could go in the child timeline as well but since the landmass changed so drastically it seems like this is New Hyrule)

2. Link, being sent back seven years in time, warns everyone about Ganondorfs intentions -> He never gets into the Sacred Realm altough he attempted to -> The Triforce is never split -> Ganondorf is sentenced to death and punished by the Sages at Arbiter's Grounds -> By some "divine prank" the Triforce is now divided into three and Link, Zelda and Ganondorf get their parts -> Ganondorf cannot be defeated, instead he kills the Sage of Water and is banished to the Twilight Realm afterwards -> Link visits Termina -> The Master Sword is moved to a saver place, the Sacred Grove, where a new Temple of Time is built ~ Skull Kid is ordered to protect it from intruders -> Events of "Twilight Princess"

Cellius Dec 29, 2006 02:37 PM
Spoiler:
Master Sword moved to a safer place? New Temple of Time constructed? Skull Kid ordered to protect this place?
You're making this up.

There is never any consistency in Hyrule's landscape between games. If the creators wanted to imply that more of the series was was related, then that would be a good place to start, but they're not doing that.

If you're going to try to link these games, it's far more reasonable to assume

Spoiler:
The Temple of Time from Ocarina eroded to its state in Twilight Princess and eventually deteriorated altogether, hence the reason the Master Sword is in a grove in A Link to the Past. One can logically surmise that that location in Zelda 3 is where the Temple of Time originally stood, and I'd be willing to bet that the designers were expecting people to make that connection.

Prime Blue Dec 29, 2006 07:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cellius (Post 353223)
Spoiler:
Master Sword moved to a safer place? New Temple of Time constructed? Skull Kid ordered to protect this place?
You're making this up.

There is never any consistency in Hyrule's landscape between games. If the creators wanted to imply that more of the series was was related, then that would be a good place to start, but they're not doing that.
Not true. Just look at TP's map. The majority of the places are in the same position as in OoT with just the Kokiri Forest being a little more to the south and Zora's Domain a little more to the north. Ordona Province, the southern part of the Desert Province (with Arbiter's Grounds), Snowpeak and North Hyrule (Hidden Village - Old Kakariko) were not reachable in OoT.
http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8970/tpmapwr7.th.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/5...tmapxy6.th.jpg
Same for TWW. Nintendo tries hard to make the landscape consistence between the single titles lately.

If you look at the basic architecture of TP's Temple of Time you'll see it's not the same. Unlike OoT, the Door of Time in TP is the entrance to the Temple of Time, not to the Master Sword pedestal room.

It's plausible that it was moved there seeing as how easy it was for Ganondorf to reach the Sacred Realm in OoT.
Sure, the Skull Kid part was interpretation on my side. But it's possible: Skull Kid still knows Saria's Song which was taught to him by OoT Link. Just as possible as the White Wolf being the Hero of Time because of the songs you play for him.

Then again, why even partake in the discussion when you say there's no timeline at all? ;)

Grubdog Dec 29, 2006 10:03 PM
The fact that the sun rises from a different side in TP Wii shows that it's a completely different unrelated planet, and that Nintendo isn't concerned about connecting them.

Forsety Dec 30, 2006 05:28 AM
Except that doesn't happen in the GCN version.

StarmanDX Dec 30, 2006 05:56 AM
In both doesn't it rise by what the map would seem to indicate as north and set in the south? Mirroring doesn't change that.

Either way, Hyrule Castle, Zora's Domain, the Lost Woods, and Death Mountain are nowhere near the same places. Only Lake Hylia and the Gerudo Desert are even close, and not particularly, at that.

map car man words telling me to do things Dec 30, 2006 06:05 AM
Well, Death mountain, Hyrule castle and the desert are very close to the same spots in Link to the Past, for instance.

I think it's a bit pointless to look for consistency or continuation in later Zelda games. They're either retellings, alternative universes or take place thousands of years later with radically different landscapes. It doesn't matter to me so much.

The only "clear" indicator that Twilight Princess happens in the same universe as Ocarina of Time that I've found was:

http://staff.gamingforce.com/qwarky/IMG490.jpg

And even that worked better simply as an in-joke (and boy did I laugh <3)

28Link Dec 31, 2006 01:05 AM
Finally beat the game, after having to restart once due to the canon bug/glitch. I have to say I agree with people who say the last few dungeons were disappointing. I can see them trying for something different with the third- and second-last dungeons, but the very last one was pretty horrible. It was as if the designers slapped some rooms, stairs, and corridors together and called it a dungeon. I thought the boss, although pretty easy once you know what to do, was decent enough to kinda make up for the level design there.

I have to say though, the bosses seemed a bit too easy for my liking. I'm not sure if it's because I've been spoiled by the intense boss fights in the Metroid Prime games, but the bosses in TP are cinematic yet so easy to beat.

Hotobu Jan 3, 2007 02:11 PM
I have a question about the game's layout. From what I hear the Wii version is a mirrored one of the GC version because most people are right handed, thus would be more comfortable with a right handed Link, and therefore flipped the entire game. First of all why didn't Nintendo just make the adjustment on link and not the entire game? Secondly has anyone tried to swap between both games and get confused?

chaofan Jan 4, 2007 07:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotobu (Post 356379)
I have a question about the game's layout. From what I hear the Wii version is a mirrored one of the GC version because most people are right handed, thus would be more comfortable with a right handed Link, and therefore flipped the entire game. First of all why didn't Nintendo just make the adjustment on link and not the entire game? Secondly has anyone tried to swap between both games and get confused?
Exactly. Wouldn't have reversing Link been easier?

As to your second question, playing the GCN version after the Wii one was initially weird, but after that it became natural. It actually feels like you're playing a different Zelda game altogether, seeing how you have to work the puzzles out in reverse.

Cellius Jan 4, 2007 06:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaofan (Post 356801)
Exactly. Wouldn't have reversing Link been easier?
Nah, I bet it was easier flipping the whole thing. The entire game was designed around Link being lefthanded; I bet just flipping the character model would have caused some headache in instances that were supposed to accomodate a lefthanded Link. Not to mention the cinema scenes would then contain mistakes.

Prime Blue Jan 4, 2007 11:29 PM
It wouldn't have been necessary to mirror it in the first place. All this swapping is just stupid PR shit to make people buy the Wii version (or both). It wouldn't of made a difference to leave the game like it is on the GCN.

PsychoJosh Jan 5, 2007 12:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubdog (Post 353100)
THERE IS NO TIMELINE
According to Mr. Miyamoto, chronologically, Ocarina of Time is the first one to happen in the series, followed by the original NES Zelda, and then... I forget the rest.

I read this somewhere, I think it was on wikipedia.

Grawl Jan 5, 2007 07:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoJosh (Post 357292)
I read this somewhere, I think it was on wikipedia.
Reliable source.

*cough*sarcasm*cough*

Prime Blue Jan 5, 2007 09:39 AM
For semi-official timelines, see Zelda Legends. :) The timeline articles are very interesting, too.

Cobalt Katze Jan 6, 2007 06:46 AM
I er, avoided this thread like the plague while playing through to avoid spoilers :D Finally beat it tonight, bloody awesome.

I personally enjoyed the last few temples for their atmosphere and items and such, though yeah they weren't as challenging as they could have been.
Spoiler:
Getting dual clawshots and ninja'ing it up all over the place was so much fun. I also loved the Spinner, though I wish it was used more after the temple in which you recieve it.


I've finally broken the gender barrier on my avatar/sig combos, because Midna's just that cool.


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