I don't think that I am really. =\ It's just that there's nothing revolutionary about it. I agree that the mods will add a lot of life to the game, but those are user-created so they don't add to the merit of the actual game. The ability to mod through the TESCS IS to the game's credit though so I'll give Bethesda that.

Maybe I just had too high of expectations and maybe the fact that I didn't like Morrowind factors into it, but I'm not saying it's a bad game. I enjoy playing Oblivion, but what I'm saying is that it's not THE best game out there.

I actually hate the levelling system in this game. It's absurd. Mods have fixed that however. I definitely don't think that this is the best RPG ever though. It's fun, but personally, I prefer Jap style RPGs.

Hey Mcknuggle, which mod are you talking about? I really dislike this leveling system too. For something they claim to be a "natural way" of leveling up by using skills, it ends up being very contrived where people will jump endlessly or autorun into a wall just to level up acrobatics and athletics. I'd like to check out these mods if you have links to them.

I'm pretty sure he is just talking about the slower leveling mod. 'Sides that, it's totally up to you rather you abuse the leveling or not. Pretty much every RPG has some glitch or easy money/level exploit so that whole point is moot.

Also, user mods do add plenty of 'merit'; that's the whole reason the construction set is there, afterall. Most people aren't going to tell you they like the barebones Morrowind experience very much but with the right mods and user-made expansions the game can be a much more impressive experience. The same can and will be said about Oblivion later on down the line. I can assure you of that.

I'm not even going to pretend this is "the best rpg ever" or any nonsense like that but it is probably my favorite PC RPG to date. Generally the only PC rpgs I absolutely love are this, Baldur's Gate 2 and Morrowind to an extent, anyway, though. Others are just serviceable to me.

I usually prefer JRPGs, too, but Oblivion is more entertaining than a good deal of them IMO because it's a game I can see myself constantly going back to due to the open-endedness and because it will have tons of interesting mods made for it throughout the years. I still play the original Thief games because people still come out with pretty good user made missions, so yeah. JRPGs don't get any such treatment. I'll usually beat them once and never touch them again. Sometimes in a rare exception the game might have been good enough to warrant a replay a few years down the line but not usually. :)

No, I got rid of the slower levelling mod. I just used it for while until my equipment was up to par with my level. Basically I hate the fact that I have to micromanage my skills in order to ensure that I have proper stat gains. This is not my idea of fun. I would much rather just play the game and have the skills level up as I use them, without having to worry about only gaining +2 to my stats every level (which is what I used to be gaining - hence why monsters were kicking my ass). I found a mod that gives you the x5 multiplier for gaining a single level in an associated skill and it has made my game much more enjoyable. I no longer have to spend what seems like hours jumping in order to ensure that I gain X amount of skill levels so that I can get a decent multiplier when I level. I'm very tempted to use one of the mods that make your stats proportional to your total skill levels though - I feel like somewhat of a cheater with my current mod. On the other hand, I absolutely hated having to micromanage every single skill point I gained.

If you look around you'll find plenty of mods that change the way you level up - most of them just change things a little too much for my liking. I have a feeling that I would be replaying games a lot more if I was back in high school. My uni workload at McGill is rather heavy - so much so that I don't even bother to play JRPGs during the semester because I simply don't have the time to spend like 6 hours playing one (which is the usual length of time that I play JRPGs for). With ES games I feel more comfortable playing for just an hour or two because I can save my game anywhere, and also because it's not as story driven as the typical JRPG.

That's a good point, too. I do enjoy playing a lot of PC games in general because of the easiness of saving. I play a lot of GBA/DS games for the same reason because some weeks my workload is just too much to really sit back and enjoy a typical console game. I've been struggling and trying to beat Suikoden V but my game clock is ridiculously high because there are days I just have to leave the game on due to not being able to reach a save at a convenient time before work. Argh.

On an above note, I never bothered to micro-manage much of anything and I didn't have a hard time. I guess some people are just more obsessive about stats than others. That or I have gotten lazier. Whichever.

The way I had my major skills set up I would gain at most like 3 stat points for any given skill. I most often was getting 1 or 2. So ya, I was getting beat down really quickly by monsters. Rather than start a new game, I found a mod to solve my problems.

Nah, I wasn't talking about abusing it. I was talking about the poor leveling system and how it is impractical and is far from the "natural" progression the developers were aiming for. For example: If you want to get the most of your character, you need to focus on 3 attributes per level to get the +5 multipliers when you level up. That means that if you skill up an attribute you don't want JUST ONCE, you will not get your +5 multiplier when you level up. That's what I'm complaining about. If you want to level up strength and accidentally jump while going somewhere and you level up Acrobatics when that's not the attribute you wish to level up, you can kiss your +5 goodbye when you level up.

Again, I think Oblivion is a good game. I was simply stating the reasons for why I don't think it's the best game ever. =P


edited to add the example.

Well, you don't even need to get X5 every level to be a competent character. If you get X5 every level from the start you will have capped every stat but luck WAY, WAY too early.

I mean, it was the same in Morrowind and if you did it right you could have a totally capped out character even before 20 (or right around) by being so anal about level up bonuses. It just isn't necessary, especially when the whole point of the system is to specialize in a few areas over the others to "roleplay" the character class you make. They don't really want you to do every guild in the same playthrough, that's just silly.

So now you're saying that people shouldn't play to maximize their character stats? It's actually not advantageous to ignore the +5 multipliers especially in key attributes such as Endurance (which directly influence your health gain at level up). If your endurance is only being leveled up +1 or +2 each level, your Health will not increase by that much and when you're capped, then you have no way of increasing your Health. A lot of players in the official forums are complaining about this because the level system is producing a lot of crippled players because they weren't aware of how leveling up works.

Yes of course you don't need to get +5 every level, but a lot of people want to optimize their character and a lot of people play this way. Are you saying that they shouldn't play that way? I'm pointing out a flaw in the leveling system of the game and you refute it by saying, "well, don't play that way and it won't be a problem." The thing is, a lot of people play that way so IT IS a problem.

And who said anything about guilds? I didn't say anything about doing all the guild questlines in the same playthrough.

Well, let's take my character - I was just playing and was getting like +2 added to my stats every level. By level 4 I had to spend like 2 minutes taking out a single enemy. The first oblivion gate involved me running away from enemies constantly waiting for my mana to regen because I did like no damage with my melee. Hence, the system obviously worked against me and forced me to micromanage my skills in order to gain more stats and become effective.

I'm saying it isn't NEEDED to do so, so yes. If you want to do it that's fine but there is no reason to complain that it is difficult to maximize stats. That's like saying, "oh noes, it's so hard to reach level 99 in "x" rpg! what a glaring and most heinous crime this is!"

There is just no logical reason other than because you want to, to maximize your stats. It is not something that has to be done to enjoy the game. The only broken part of the system IMO is how it penalizes non fighters for leveling up. Leveling too many times in, say, alchemy might wind up making the game too hard; but this is a problem with the system in general not with "maximizing stats" as you like to put it.

Also, I mentioned the guild thing because it is related to leveling up. If you really played the game the way they wanted you to you really should never end up level 52 (the standard max for this game unless you lower stats via prison) because there aren't enough quests to warrant so much leveling up. I'm not even trying to advocate that this is how I feel it should be played but from a obvious role playing perspective it probably should be. Still, it relates because should you do certain guilds, you will more than likely be wanting to raise certain stats more than others. Playing the game normally as such you will almost always cap the stats these guilds rely on unless you are trying to tackle every single guild in the game and spread yourself thin.

Either way, if you don't like that then just download a mod like Mucknuggle did. He didn't enjoy the game the way they made it, that's fine. To be perfectly honest I didn't like plenty of aspects either so I either edited them myself with the construction set or downloaded mods to make the experience more enjoyable.

Blah, either way I agree that the system needs some work but not because it's difficult to maximize stats but because it is difficult to specialize in non combat skills without it making the game ridiculously difficult.

I was level 5 in the first gate and didn't really have much trouble. Maybe you had crappy gear or maybe you had crappy gear AND it was in bad condition making it even crappier. Or maybe you didn't want to specialize in combat as I went a little into in the above section of my post, in which case I feel for you. Really, I dunno. Maybe your reflexes aren't good when it comes to blocking or maybe you personally felt you didn't want to (or need to) block. I'm not you and I wasn't there to watch how you play so I can really only speculate, heh. All I can say is that blocking plays a very vital role to melee combat in this game so if you were being very gun-ho then that was your problem. Otherwise, I dunno. If you needed a mod to enjoy the combat/leveling progression that's fine, though. Lord knows I've already haxxed my game up with several mods to spice things up to my liking.

... Way longer than I wanted this to be and I'm sure half of it made no sense because I'm tired as fuck. I hope I was able to at least get some sort of point across with my rambling. :/

Nono, I block almost every attack. The problem is when my melee attacks do no damage. I think that my Dark Elf had a super low strength or something, even though he had blade as a major skill. I think the problem is that I had too many non-damage dealing oriented magics as my major skills and my blade wasn't levelled enough in proportion to my level.

What mods do you use Forsety?

Wha...what's this???

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/4879/horse9ke.th.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7...hot27px.th.jpg


Get it while it's hot. :edgarrock:

You don't understand. Enjoyment is subjective. People will enjoy different things. Now I'm not saying I'm a power gamer (I'm very very far from it), but power gamers will want to optimize their character and that's what has brought the slew of complaints in the official forums. You'll find one such thread on every page of the forums.

All I did was give a reason for why I am not enjoying the game as much as I could be. It is a subjective reason. You're telling me that I'm wrong for disliking a part of the game that affects my enjoyment because it doesn't affect yours. The world doesn't think exactly like you do and doesn't have the exact views you have.

Gold armor is really ugly.

Also, Boards of Canada FTW.

--edit--
Nevermind.

I'll try out the armor tomorrow. Oh and so far my favorite small mods are:
- Color Map (Essential, IMO)
- Not so agressive animals (I.E., actually behave somewhat like real life)
- landscapeLODmod (A needed change)
- Natural Water (Makes it much prettier to look at without a huge drop in FPSs)

Is there any way to import your own muisc to play during the game? Fighting
Daedra to some VGM Battle Music would be the sex.

Since you obviously have the PC version with all those mods, just dump the mp3s of whatever you want into the data/music directory and depending on your mode of the music the appropriate folder. I've got pretty much my own collection in there as I did for Morrowind as I think their's is quite limited considering the scope of the game and the time you'll actually be playing it.

Of course I'm sticking to the themes of the game and using only medievil sorts of music.

As for the xbox 360, well I dunno if you can do that.

I never said you were wrong. I even agreed that there are jarring issues with the leveling system. But the fact is; you don't have to max your stats and like you said, some people will want to. Well, you know what? Some people want to level to 99 in Suikoden games despite the awkward way leveling works (enemies give less and less exp as you get higher leveled to a point where every battle gives five experience) but people still do it because they enjoy doing it. Does that somehow mean the system is poor? Nope. It means you only need to be 60 to comfortably beat the game and anything higher is completely unnecessary. Why should the developers purposely dumb something down to make this easier just because some people like to power game?

No shit everyone has different views. You think I don't know that? Why else would I be sharing my views with you. Seriously. It works both fucking ways, genius. If you are going to argue that something is poor I sure as hell can argue that it's not. Deal with it. I really wasn't irritated before. I figured we were just arguing points. But if you are going to start acting like I am being irrational for not agreeing with you then you can just go "share" your opinions with yourself.

Dark nation mentioned a few of them. In addition to those I downloaded the arrow velocity mod because arrow physics were much too slow IMO. I also downloaded the mod that makes it harder for guards to see/hear what you are doing. Psychic guards are not cool and it was killing the buzz I was getting everytime they caught me for something even if they were no where nearby when it happened.

I also downloaded a mod to allow stolen items to be sold anywhere since that's how it worked in morrowind and I personally felt it was far more realistic. Seriously, how is Joe-Nobody going to know this generic tomato is stolen? Makes no sense so I "fixed" it.

I'm certainly in no position to judge people for using mods; I just never had many problems with leveling/combat. This may change, however, once I try to make a non combat/stealth oriented character. :)

Dense people are funny.

GFFer: i don't like this game
Foresty: omg wtf?! if you enjoyed the game exactly like i did (which i think everyone in the world does because the world revolves around me), you'd see that the game is awesome!!!
GFFer: uh, i didn't enjoy it. that's it...
Foresty: UH YOUR STANDARDS ARE WRONG! i enjoyed it! so should you!
GFFer: ok. bye.
Foresty: DUDE if you ignore the things that you usually enjoy, you'll find that this system isn't poor! so change your preferences so that it caters to what the game offers instead of criticizing it!! omg!

example: http://www.gamingforce.com/forums/rp...html#post32946 post #17

Thanks for the tip. Yeah I got the PC Version. The only way I imagine the game would use custom soundtracks for the 360 is if there was an option for it (Like in some games with the Xbox).

All you've done is gone and proven my point. I'm not going to bother wasting my time with you any further if you can't at least attempt to understand my point of view. The world doesn't cater to you anymore so than it does to me. Stop making a god damned fool of yourself, man.

You can use custom soundtracks in every 360 game.

And listen to Forsety Spike.

Edit: Ok dont automerge. Whatever.

http://www.grawl.nl/modules/download...ion%201.0.html

Version 1.0 of the guide, with most of the stuff finished.