Since when were we discussing used sales instead of flat out piracy? Because I missed the part where we jumped from one sinking ship to the other.

I dunno. The part about being a cheap ass maybe.

Also, you've yet to show how I'm punishing developers for making good games.

Flat out stealing quality works isn't exactly a good way of encouraging their creation, y'know. Voting with your wallet and all that. Why is this a difficult concept to grasp?

Look. I understand the desire to want something for free. All I ask is that you don't pretend you're fucking Robin Hood about it. You're stealing video games for your own personal use, for fuck's sake.

How can you encourage their creation when they see no direct feedback from a purchase? Did you miss the part about a title not being available in stores still new which when purchased actually counts towards the SOLD GAMES tally? Used games don't go into that since they've already been put into the count by the person who originally purchased it who more likely than not wasn't you. You fart in their general direction, blow a kiss, or erect a statue made of sweet corn in their honor it'll mean the same jack shit to them that buying a used game or not buying a used game at all in terms of giving them a pat on the back for their good efforts.

See, I think you're missing the point I'm making. You can only support these guys when you buy a new game that counts as a sale where the publishers and developers then get money. If I know I'm going to like a game on the DS or have played a DS game on the Cyclo that I enjoyed and full well know it is still available for purchase NEW AND UNUSED and that I can say hay Capcom ^5 or hay Nintendo ^5 or hay Sega ^5 or hay god forbid EA ^5 with them actually receiving my ^5 of cash I'd certainly then purchase said game and then fling it into the pile.

You've still yet to show how I'm punishing developers for making good games.

I was the only person on Earth to buy Chronos Twins, and I sent the developers a love letter and some photos of me dry humping the box, now they're making a game with the best name ever!

The point of this story is tha-holy fuck you get to fight Santa!

http://i34.tinypic.com/mmflfn.png

Infernal, you've created a monster. <3

For fuck's sake Acer, stop backpeddling and trying to change the direction of the argument away from the direct piracy topic. When you directly bring up the Cyclo, that's kinda the point being discussed. Why you're harping on used sales when I've repeatedly stated that's NOT WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT IN THE LEAST is starting to make me wonder if Lix has jacked your account sometime in the last two days in a poor attempt at trolling.

Also, both Contra and Bangai-O are available new from online retailers like Amazon, and a majority of titles this dumb bitch will want to play are still available as such. You're suggesting this woman immediately buy a flash card and start stealing whatever the fuck she wants to save a few bucks. Be it widely available or not.

You've also suggested that I was correct in my assumption that your stance is "don't-support-it-at-all" to fight what you think is a stagnating library.

So, taking those two points together, it seems relatively logical that you're suggesting that none of the software deserves support, regardless of if it's considered quality or not.

The suggestion that quality software deserves to be stolen instead of purchased just because you're thinking the entire platform has a crap library is indeed punishing them for their effort. Rocket science?

But you've backpedalled pretty hard with "lol I would have bought it if I liked it; USED GAMES ETC" so even I'm having trouble understanding what you're trying to say at this point. All I'm saying is the pirate-holier-than-thou attitude is bullshit and you know it.

I can't tell if this is a 0/10 or a 10/10 troll, Acer. But it's one or the other.

Do you have a problem with people like myself (as in, those that will never buy a new copy unless it's cheaper than a used copy) pirating?

I have a bit of a problem with that, especially if you have the money and want the game, but are too cheap to actually spend money on it. If you don't think the game is worth its price at launch then wait until it's price is reduced to a point that you are happy to pay. If, however, you pirate on day one because you want to play the game but don't want to spend money, then yeah, that's a bit off and if you're happy with what that is then so be it.

But the issue Skills has with Acer's original statements is that it he attempts to justify piracy and make it sound like a "hey, it's OK to do this" sort of deal, which it isn't. We get that it happens, and in some cases it wasn't a lost sale anyway, but don't act like you're Mr Cool Guy by pirating.

I agree understand Acer's point that used games don't see profit going back to the devs/publisher, but I disagree that that's a good enough reason to justify piracy.

I pirate games first and then buy those which I like later, when they're in the bargain bin. I make no excuses. Am I a bad person?

Yes.

Now go take a good look at yourself in the mirror.

And masturbate.

τετέλεσται

These days it's incredibly rare for me to be so bothered about a game that I must have it on launch day so I always wait a week and pick up the inevitable second hand copy for a fiver less. According to one of the guys who works in one of the GAME shops in town, there's a few achievement whores in town who buy games on release date, run through all the easy achievements then take them back within the week. Quite why they don't just rent the games is beyond me but it saves me money so who cares frankly?

That said, I don't think I have a single pirated game. One or two abandonware ones but I think God will forgive me for those.

The fact you feel the need to ask the question speak volumes about how you view your own actions, and how they would be perceived.

Shin: I'd much rather someone spend money on used-games than resort to piracy.

See whilst Acer's argument is that because used games don't see money going back to the devs it's OK to pirate, what that argument handily skips over is that it potentially hurts consumers. See if everyone took that attitude then stores would no longer offer money for used games which means they wouldn't take trade-ins, which for quite a few people (especially kids) is one of they key ways they can get money towards new titles (new titles which do contribute to their developers).

Shhh... stop ruining my fun by pointing out the obvious. But okay really yeah jerk move on my part to suggest a poor college student who doesn't give a shit about gaming to save some money. I'll leave it up to her if she takes the suggestion, does what I do and test waters for games I'm on the edge with and some actual developer monetary gain bullshit argument like me, or be a complete pirate.

Ah, whenever I look for titles on Amazon they're usually used. Didn't even think about checking for online retail, so I'm sorry if wrong on those two but I was just using them as an example of games I remember not seeing new and available at my local Best Buy and GameStop stores.

Honestly this is just me being a bit pissy at Nintendo for not releasing/showing off an actual successor to the DS.

Nope, that statement was in the context of my suggestion for a Cyclo on my assumption that she's a poor college student who doesn't really care all that much about gaming and my indifference if she supports it or not.

Oh yeah, HEY EVERYBODY GO STEAL SOFTWARE. THAT'S MY MANTRA. WAVING MY JOLLY ROGER OVER HERE. FREE SOFTWARE YA YA YA. YOU BOY IN THE STREET. ARE YOU PLAYING POKEMON? YOU LIKE IT? FUCK YOU GO TO THE INTERNET AND DOWNLOAD THAT SHIT. I DON'T EVER WANT TO SEE YOU GIVING MONEY TO THE MAAAN AGAIN. NO, YOU CAN'T HAVE A PHYSICAL COPY TO TREASURE. NO NO NO NO.

I do what I will with my pirating. I tell people that I know who I suggest getting a Cyclo that hey it can save you some good money but I'm not going to stop you if you want to then go buy a physical copy of a game you liked and if they don't want to then that's fine too. Potentially, a good angelic consumer can benefit from the Cyclo if they just want to use it as an all in one device so they don't have to carry 20 little cartridges on their person.

Fuck you, I'm super serious here, guy. Rooting for a -10/10 myself actually. Help me out, Skills. We can get there if we work together.

Sometimes I just feel like being a jerk to a developer because I still got a bit of fanboy faggotry stuck in my veins. It's a stupid stance and it's unjustified but I get my rocks off anyway in my own little world. Sometimes... sometimes... I play games by Square Enix on my Cyclo just because I'm disappointed by their lack of support of good games on the console front (mainly Wii because I'm a crass act like that) and this is my way at getting back at them oh ho ho ho. For instance I won't be buying Chrono Trigger but goodness I'll give it a shot and god willing get to that super special extra dungeon they're giving us.

I'm not going to act like the repentant sinner to the Church of Skills either. He's still yet to prove how I'm punishing developers for making good games. Although I've given him a great example in the above. Brownie points! :cmb:

No, it's not a good justification. Hardly any are but I like giving excuses anyway. I just don't like it when someone says I'm punishing a developer by not buying used games because they are wrong. I can't punish a developer by buying used games or by not buying used games. I'll concede that I'm probably not helping developers by pirating their games that I only find used in stores and I'm not completely justified and it serves as a pretty wishwashy excuse.

The worst thing as a gamer you could possibly do is find a game you know is going to be awesome and you yourself say oh man this game was made for me and I appreciate what the developers have made oh baby yeah gonna go pirate this day one and never give them a cent. In situations like that I try not to do that. Professor Layton for example. I fucking love games that are similar in nature to those of old adventure click n' play classic LucasArts/Sierra variety. I still have Layton in shrink wrap. I play it in my Cyclo though. I've paid for both Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney 2 and 3 from Capcom's online store but never fucking received them. I feel complete and utterly justified in playing those games on my Cyclo DS.

Yes. :)

Never thought about it that way because I try to make sound purchases when I buy my games so I almost always keep my games. I've only sold some games to Gamestop once and those were some shitty EA games I'd been given that I never wanted that were gathering dust and taking up space. Well gee in that regards my apologies to little Jimmy for any unintended ill will. However, if my severe lack of game returns is any indications I think GameStop will live on just fine.

OK, it's fairly evident that some crossed wires are at play between Acer and Skills, and it seems by and large you're on the same page (mostly), just Acer was talking about the option being there if someone so chooses to do it.

Because Square Enix are the only ones failing to put out decent games on the Wii right?... Oh wait, oops.

Square Enix is just one case. I play favorites like anyone else might on what companies I like, so Square Enix is not the only one I do that silly business to. For example my evil eye is always looking at Konami for not doing more with Goemon over here.

And also you pretty much get me. I LOVE options. I'd like to think I do have some scruples though.

No. I just have a problem with people who think they're doing it for reasons outside of "I'm cheap". No one's fighting the man. Like I said earlier, no one here is Robin Hood. The earlier statements last page certainly made it seem like that's how some people viewed themselves. This's a site that's got a lot of piracy ties. Would I be here if I cared about that? There were some bullshit excuses made earlier, and now they're being corrected, so.

After finally getting an explanation for it though, I finally see what Acer truly meant last page. Would have been nicer half an argument ago instead of diverting off into how much buying second hand blows but eh, what can you do. Shit happens.

Besides, I did explain the punishment statement, around thirty four times but I guess Acer just doesn't see it that way. :(

That's the sort of thing I meant, see. Hopefully no more posts about "YOU HAVE YET TO SAY ANYTHING" now.

Edit: That above sort of thing was the entire basis of my complaint and argument. That's what's horseshit. None of this other reasoning.

k. I'm putting my $0.02 here.

The reason why I pirate isn't just because I don't have the money (at the time) to buy games. Hell, most people who know me know that I do buy games. Sometimes I have a disc based game that just wont run anymore (DDR 5th mix comes to mind) and are generally unplayable. Most would think "okay, if it's ruined so much, buy another copy." Well, I would but it's out of print or unobtainable through an easier set of means. So just incase, I made a copy beforehand.

Another example would be that I want to test out the game before it comes out, in english. There are no readily availible reviews out for the game at the moment, so I can't get an opinion on how good it is. Example would be any Atlus game out there. Most are limited print runs and aren't availibe in my area (hell, alot of the stores in my area don't carry alot of Atlus stuff when it does come in as it is, so...), so I just download it, check it out, and purchase it online, later (again, if I can).

Using the excuse "I do it 'cause I'm poor" is, actually, in rather poor taste mainly because you can fix that. I mean, you could also fix the supply issue that I have in my area for games, and you could also fix the fact that my games get ruined. I guess it all comes down to convinience sometimes. But to say I do it 'cause I'm poor is wrong. I do work, I do make money, and I do spend that money on games.

Getting back on topic. You said you were an RPG lover. The PSP has a large RPG library, compared to the DS, however the DS is starting to come back with some RPG titles.

But if you want an instant, I'd go with the PSP.

BUT SKILLS I AM ROBIN HOOD. I'M SO FIGHTING THE MAN. IT'S SO MUCH FUN. WHY CAN'T YOU SEE THIS? HURGRABLEGRBL

My diversion tactics are puddling up in excess. Yeeees this dumbass argument is for me to lose. You can't take that away from me so easily, Skills! Continue barking you sloven dog you. GRRRRR.

Being honest here. I understand full well how piracy can very directly punish developers who make good games. What you haven't explained is how I myself in my methods am punishing developers. I'm being stubborn on that point. Anyway, I use piracy as a means to an end and in a sense a filter. Please condemn me for that if you will. I suppose that further explanations have possibly cleared this up a little though.

Additional Spam:
<3<3<3 yeeeees it so much beautiful horseshit but I love doing it~ sorry skills~ *kisses*

STOP LOADING THOSE CATAPULTS WITH POOP ACER, YOU'RE SCARING THE REST OF THE CIVILIANS.

'BOUT TO GET MESSY IN HERE *crank**crank**crank*

Not aimed at Acer in particular but saying that your piracy is justified because your local store doesn't stock a game is a shitty excuse, given that just about every game from the current and last generation is available to buy online. Google product searches mean you get it cheap too.

Who actually still goes to shops anyway these days?

Not aimed an Shin but assuming that everybody can buy everything online is as just a shitty excuse as saying that you're too poor to afford games.

Who actually depends on everything online these days?
Also wow, Shin. Way to fag up a thread there.

Not everything is available online unused though. Well not always anyway. This isn't to say I don't buy used games because I do. It's just in those situations where I'd really like to support the developers but can't easily do so because I've decided to buy a game a few weeks or months after its release for whatever reason and then don't see it in stores unused that I then just give up and buy it used in the best condition I can find. I tend to go on splurges at my local GameStop so if I see a game in the store that I've heard good things about I'll get it and I usually ask if they have any new copies of games I bring up to the counter. I should probably get into preordering games online or just visiting my store with this in mind more often. Been a while since I've done that.

I give into this kind of temptation to test waters with the DS when it's this easy to pirate. However I've yet to install a modchip in a console though because I'm fucking lazy and worry I'll end up bricking the machine while soldering or through installing some dumbshit firmware update. But god damn the DS doesn't even put up a fight.