That's true, but I take common-sense precautions with my gun. It's hidden, for one thing, and never stored loaded (although the clip is hidden in a separate area of the same room). Also, my kids know better than to ever touch the gun, even if they were able to find it, which is highly doubtful.

I do hear about kids finding guns and accidentally shooting each other, and I agree that it's definitely a risk. I guess it's up to each individual whether they feel that their children are more likely to be harmed by an intruder or by an accidental shooting.

I know that my kids have been taught gun responsibility. I trust them not to snoop around in my room and find my gun and play with it MUCH more than I trust the crazies in my area not to come in and harm me or my children.

So why was my post deleted? It was a cynical argument, yeah, but still an argument.

I don't see why my contribution to this thread warrants deletion while this

is considered to be fine.

I'm just wondering. Do you suppose the crimes in your area are random crimes or are they perhaps more often premeditated crimes with specific targets? In other words, would you really get screwed with if you didn't screw with anyone?

Hmm...maybe not. And if I didn't have kids I might risk it, you know, for the sake of scientific research.

Heh, I'm just saying. Because around here, I've sometimes considered walking around with a baseball bat just to deter possible assailants, but I would think that in the boonies, if someone takes the effort to travel all the way to your house, they must at least know you and if they liked you, well, they'd probably find someone else to rob.

But Minion, what if someone followed me home to rape me? Is that such a stretch? Lots of people in my area know that my husband has been deployed for a while, and even if they didn't, it's not all that unheard of for some insane rapist to follow a woman home and rape and sometimes kill her.

Although I will admit that we've had this gun since we first got married. Also, I was raised in a home with guns, so it's something I don't even think about. It just seems like the logical thing to do to have a gun in your home for protection.

I've been poor and homeless before, Minion, so don't give me shit. There are places you can get a warm bed at night and a hot meal in the day. Besides the fact that there are many food banks (churches) that offer free food to the poor when they can't afford to feed themselves. So I consider what you said be an excuse, something I will not accept as a reason why they are stealing my possessions .

This isn't to say I am just going to shoot someone for stepping into my home illegally. The only time it is justifiable to shoot an intruder is if they are attacking you or point a firearm at you. Otherwise I'd just corner the guy and make him lay down on his face while I hog tie him at gun point while I wait for the cops to show up and take this person away.

Rock: I don't know what you are talking about your post being deleted...

Well okay. Do you keep a gun in your glove compartment, too? You should, otherwise when you get out of the car, the guy will probably outrun you and rape you anyway.

The point is, yes, all this stuff happens. But then, a lot of things that we never prepare for are possible. What's the number 1 killer in this country? It's not thieves or rapists; it's heart failure. How many people (espeically in the South) do anything to prevent that? It's just a question of values. These people allegedly care so much about taking care of themselves, but ironically ignore the things that are most likely to kill them, like poor dieting and lack of exercise and smoking.

Double Post:
So, every homeless man's situation is exactly the same as yours and if you could handle it so could they? There are places where you can get food, but not enough of them and there are a lot of homeless people. Many of them die every year. Why is this, if it's so easy for them to take care of themselves?

Yeah well, Devolution, I am well aware of the fact that in total numbers, the United States of America has - surprisingly enough - a higher crime rate than the Vatican or Vanuatu... I was talking about the amount of crime per inhabitant, and that's a statistic you guys still rock.

Minion their situation doesn't have to be the same as mine, but just because they choose to be out there doesn't make it right for them to steal, nor will it make me feel any pity for these people when they try and steal my things. They made the decision to come into my home, they will pay the concequences of their actions for invading my home.

Yes you have a lot of urban centers especially in Central America :lolsign:

Look, the United States is like 25 times larger than Germany, but has only three times more inhabitants so what about you don't tell me anything about urbanity?

And don't even try to start with this ethnical shit, we have niggers and jews over here, too.

Right. People live in the streets and risk their lives stealing other people's junk because it's so much more glamorous than having a decent job and being able to afford things.

You didn't really answer my question. Why can't some of them get it together? Are there enough resources out there for ALL of the homeless in this country?

And this statement is helpful in which way?

Yeah, those roving Jewish street gangs are a big problem.

How big are the black populations in german cities? How about the meth problem among white trash Germans?

The crime problem isn't caused by guns, but they do increase it. Banning guns would be useless, as there are too many out there anyway. Better enforcing of the laws and actually keeping scum locked up and executing those who need it, in a timely fashion, would do more to lower the problem.

Instead of a background check on a gun buyer, it would sure be nice if there could be a test to determine the buyers dumbass quotion. No, I'm sorry, you are way to stupid to be buying a gun.

Because without guns people basically could not kill each other and would have no desire to do so anyway.

I'm still going by the logic that less guns mean less crime. How can you even refute this? I mean, criminals aren't exactly born as criminals and you can't really predict who becomes a criminal. It might just as well be this Gumby person who claims he needs a shitload of guns to "protect himself".

What kind of a stupid argument is saying that "criminals" will be getting their guns illegally nonetheless!? I'm willing to bet that most of these killings have been carried out with legally purchased and owned weaponry.

With more guns being publically available, the probability of abuse is much higher than in a society with strict gun control.

I wouldn't quite agree on the bit about the desire but there's a quote from Frank Miller that pretty much nailed the ramifications of a society with broad access to firearms:

"A gun is a coward's weapon, a liar's weapon. We kill too often because we made it too easy, sparing ourselves the mess and the work."

There's lots of black people, if that's what you mean.

And Central America has a significant crime problem. Jamaica, I believe, has only one urban center, yet they have one of the highest murder rates in the world.

The fact of the matter is that none of us are criminologists. Determining whether or not the presence of guns increases crime is impossible, yet we can statistically establish that an absence of guns does not eliminate crime, or criminal intent.

In fact, we've had crimes since we've had laws. Murders used to be commited primarily with knives and swords. Does the multiple use of a dagger justify its banning? Some ancient civilizations would say so, but now that we have guns, versatility is all of a sudden an important element.

And what of bows? You could use them to hang your dry-cleaning, but how many uses for them involved something outside of maiming and killing a human being?

Of course, in ancient times, "gun control" was a simple matter of production. Your average Joe didn't have access to a furnace, or advanced smithy. Nor could he even afford its products. Rebellion was practically impossible without monetary backing, or an industrial base, and those rebellions that succeeded were committed to the selfish wishes of individuals or oligarchies.

There was never really a true "People's Rebellion" until the advent of the gun. There have never been free societies before the gun. The gun, as they say, is the Great Equalizer, and the base threat of force it provides is what, I feel, makes the right to bear arms so important. It forces law to remain legitimate, it forces governments into serving their people.

Is owning an AK any different from owning a shotgun? Does a 30 round magazine make it any easier for me to kill people? What if I just carried a lot of guns?

Then again, I believe that criminalizing the possession of anything is ridiculous, since it's impossible to determine intent until use. I am, after all, some dumb Libertarian.

I suggest you do some research before you come back, you seem to be rather misinformed.

Minion: If you think people will not kill each other when there is a lack of firearms you are lacking a gasp of reality because if that were true countries that banned the use of firearms would have ZERO murders, but the simple fact is that isn't true.

Bradylama: I have a quote for you, since you seem to have your head screwed on straight. "An armed man is a citizen: an unarmed man is a subject." - Unknown

It's called a joke. I know it's confusing because I am arguing both sides (since I take issue with some points raised by both sides), but I thought my tone was pretty obviously sarcastic.

What if my aunt had balls... gah nevermind.

Alice, chances are really good that a gun won't help you prevent or stop a rape. Unless you pay attention to your surroundings, a rapist can approach you from behind and stick a knife to your throat. That's typically how rapes occur. At this point no gun is going to help you. What will help you is a little knowledge of self defense. Ask your husband for a little self defense training. They still teach all military recruits some basic Judo moves.

Rapists, like most criminals typically go easy targets. So don't make yourself an easy target yeah? Don't get caught out and alone late at night. Don't loiter around that dark alley. Finally, if you're caught in that situation don't scream "RAPE!" scream "FIRE!!!!" Somebody's more likely to come assist. It's as easy as that.

Last, a criminal following you home is just some paranoid fantasy out of a movie. Or a home security system commercial. Do you know which houses in your neighborhood contain guns? Probably not. Does a criminal? Definitely not. Why risk it if you're going after easy targets?


Yes. It's very different. Because at that point you now out-gun every law enforcement officer minus a SWAT team. Unlike the German Politzer who carries around SMGs, American police officers are inadequately equipped.

I can agree with you on your second point. But I'm a stupid libertarian too. :(