So I'm at a new school now and they offer a few things that I could take:

Karate (Shotokan), Beginning and Intermediate/Advanced
Karate (Tang Soo Do), Beg/Int/Adv
T'ai-Chi Ch'uan, Beginning and Intermediate/Advanced

I'm mostly looking for something that's relaxing and will be able to get me to stop focusing on my work for a few hours a week. Each one only meets twice a week for an hour (except for Shotokan that meets on Saturdays as well). I haven't done my tae kwon do in about ten years, so I don't know if my background in it will do much good.

If none of these sound any good I could always fall back on racquetball. :(

You get as much out of it as you put into it, like anything else. If you perceive Karate to be worthless, it is likely because haven't taken the time to understand it and more importantly, APPLY IT. I am sure you subscribe to the philosophy that it is better to stop a punch with your face, than find a way to put actual training to practical use, but Karate DOES teach basic evasive maneuvers and positioning to keep people on their toes. Its clear that you don't think this worthwhile. Nevertheless, Karate is far from worthless...

Then again, you YELLED at Amara at the gamingforce meet last year...I mean, you must be THE champion prize fighter.

You're rite, Karate is ghey.

You'll find either shotokan or tang soo do to be quite similiar to tae kwan do really. Tang soo do is very closely relates as it's either split off or parallel art to tkd depending on whose version of korean martial arts history you listen to. Like wise shotokan is often considered the root of tkd do to some of the cultural bs the japanese pulled on the koreans when they invaded. At any rate you shouldn't be coming in completely green.

Tai Chi depends a lot on the instructor as it's varies largely in focus from raw relaxation exercise to being an effective martial art. Either way therapeuitic but unlikely to get you in really good cardio shape or get you ripped. It also it takes a fairly long time to develop to be effective as a fighting art compared to most anything you can do. So if your focus is kicking ass quickly or losing a gut you'd best look elsewhere. It's pretty good if you stick with it a few years though and tends to be good for bad backs and knees.

Depending on the instructors involved none of those arts art inherently flawed so I'd take a gander at a class in action to see what you think of how they run it. Most schools are fine with letting you either take a trial class or at least watch one to scope it out before you commit.

Tae kwon do schools vary wildly in curriculum depending if they're focus is on winning tournaments or on self defense. There's a fair amount of punching, joint lock, and throwing techniques that go straight out the window when the focus is winning trophy's as the majority of it is disallowed in tourney's. He probably just lucked out into hitting a more traditional school. The majority are crap and just try to soak soccer moms for expensive belt testing. It's pretty tricky to find a good one in that style.

I've looked around at some schools near where I live and I found 2 that are to my liking.

1. Pekiti Tirsia Kali
2. Krav Maga

Also was considering Pankration and Muay Thai but I'll just stick to the arts that works and just puts emphasis on dealing pain.

I don't really think with 2-3 hours of class a week any of the arts will get me into that great of shape, and I heavily doubt I'll have much time for out of class training, so I don't think I'd wind up seeing a whole ton of benefits from the training.

I also can't sit in an any classes beforehand since they're offered as classes at my university, but then on the plus side that means they're free (and should remain so the 4-6 years I stay here). Maybe somewhere I'll be able to find ratings for the teachers somewhere and that'll let me choose.

Frankly, I'm leaning towards Tai Chi right now because I don't want something so strenuous that I won't be able to go back to my room and do homework for a few hours afterwards. From what I've heard hardly any grad students have time to take the PE classes, but I think it would really help with mental health and whatnot to have a set relaxation time (my school apparently has the highest psychiatrist to student ratio in the country :().



Yeah. I don't remember anyone going to competitions from my school, though my instructor had often urged me to compete. I just never wound up going since they cost money to enter and were often scheduled close to times I had other commitments from school. I don't recall any extra fees for testing for belts, though there was a bit that sucked where really crappy kids would get advanced just because they were at a belt level for so long they were getting ready to give up. The guy that ran it was a construction worker of some sort as a day job, as well, so I don't think he used the school as a giant cash cow but instead had it as something he really enjoyed doing. The more I think about it the more I miss it. :(

Perhaps I should go a bit more into it since you don't perceive understanding when you see it, troll.

Karate is a sport. It has little intristic value as a means to self-defense, just like boxing. Its extremely limited in terms of strength and its generally a one-on-one activity, so if you're ever in a bad situation with more than one person, you're fucked and in a bad way. Theres no disarming techniques with it either - unless you're going to branch out into more specific forms or other arts like Kung-fu (which is about getting as close to your opponent as possible with as few blows as you can), Jeet Kune Do (which is a mix of a bunch of forms) or Krav Maga (which is Israeli Combat Fighting and probably the most brutal one I can think of).

So, after three years of taking it, yes, I do know what I'm talking about. Kindly don't delete posts that are on topic either.

No, because throwing a punch constitutes assault, for those of us that live in the real world. The last thing I needed was that kid showing up at home with bruises and the mother calling the police.

As someone who has taken Aikido and Muay Thai for many years, as well as toying with Kendo recently, Rainman, I find it fucking offensive that you would insinuate that LeHah doesn't understand the concepts of martial arts discipline because he didn't punch Amara. If anyone has trained for any length of time in ANY martial art, even something as brutal as Krav Maga, they know that force is the last blood option. You understand the notion of hurting someone, and you know why it is something you want to avoid.

He's right, by the way, Karate is more or less useless as real self defence. It is a sport more than a martial art, and is based around avoiding a singular strike, not multiple, repeated blows. It just doesn't hold up as a stand alone art.

LeHah may be a bit of a blowhard at times, but in this case he's absolutely right.

I think that Copiera (spelled wrong) is quite the interesting martial art. With its combination of dancing and fighting, I think that it would be good to relax with, and if that is what you are looking for it would dramatically increase your flexibility.

No, you DON'T.

In all honesty, 3 years really isn't enough time to familiarize yourself with all aspects of karate and determine that all of its methods of self defense, are worthless. That's all I am saying. Karate isn't a fullproof method for anything, but it helps one defend themselves during a throwdown. I think people might get the wrong impression through reading your input about karate, and thus I disagree with you...NOT out of spite.

Thats not what I meant. I didn't say you should've punched Amara. (Where did I say that?) Thanks for completely misunderstanding something so simple. Nevermind. You obviously don't remember the initial time this conversation was brought up, so forget about it. :><:

Of course I question your opinion on this matter, I thought you would've been getting used to it by now. Again, Karate is far from worthless and I've taken about 10 years of various martial arts (Shotokan, Ken-Jut-su and Jeet-kun-do) which all utilize various aspects of Karate largely, so I don't see how you could possibly decide that Karate is a worthless pursuit and a "boring" sport. That opinion is just crap.

As I told Lehah, thats not what I was inferring. (Sorry you took it that way.) Lehah has a tendency to blow smoke out of his ass to try to make himself look better. That's all I was saying. I don't believe it is cool to punch someone in the face without proper reason.

To understand what I said, you also have to understand a previous conflict that Lehah and I had where he tried to intimidate someone on the internet...but this isn't really worthwhile to continue with this sideline discussion.

This depends entirely upon situation. Sometimes it is best to diffuse a dangerous situation by incapacitating the trajectory of energy before it becomes dangerous. Take that as you will. What I am saying is that defense isn't always entirely about DEFENSE. This is the exception though...

"Real" self defense? What constitutes a real self defense martial art with a fake one? A bit of criteria may prove helpful!

I agree both that Karate is more of a sport than a martial art though and that Karate doesn't offer a great deal as a standalone martial art. Nevertheless, there are various aspects of Karate which could prove extremely useful in self preservation for those new to martial arts and give a basic set of moves that lead into more advanced forms of Karate.

Thats all I am saying.

I disagree. I disagree completely.

On the contrary - I do. Just in the same way someone like yourself who took something and then dropped out.

In other words, you have no right or reason to say what you have here about what I posted, considering you're in the same boat as I am. Attempting to invalidate my post is simply invalidating your own criticism.

It really doesn't. Karate in the traditional sense - I'm not talking about places that teach you throws from other art forms, I'm talking about if you get into a bout at a tournament - is simply a sport. It has very little function and every other martial art I've seen and have tried overwhelms it very easily. Upper and lower blocks, front kicks, punches, backfists, ankle sweeps, forward throws - its the most rudimentary material possible. They don't teach you to use your elbows, forehead, knees (except for blocking) or how to twist-lock people's wrists. Theres no submission moves, theres no arm locks, theres no gouging. Someone in a real fight would last all of five seconds longer than the average joe because Karate is based on sport rules. You can't make contact with certain body parts, you can't make contact with the face.

Krav Maga, on the other hand, they teach you how to break someone's arm in two moves. Kali teaches you armed and unarmed combat at the same time (all the moves are related). They teach you how to disarm or how to take on several opponents at once.

The difference between the two is gigantic.

What you intended to say and what you wrote are obviously not the same - since people other than myself got that impression. Way to stick your foot in your mouth.

All the forms you mentioned have things in common with Karate - namely that they're all open-handed. However, thats as far as they go - much in the same way how the sport of boxing is different from someone who has gotten in a street fight. (I haven't, thank god - but the difference is obvious)

That is to say - one thing in common does not make them similar, anymore than someone with a broadsword must know how to use a katana.


I don't have to blow smoke out my ass. I do look this good. :)

But you called me out that I should have hit Amara. For someone who supposedly took several forms of martial arts for a decade, you know absolutely nothing about the restraint they teach you about it. Not to mention, most people who take up any style of self-defense never mention it; boasting about such things will only get your ass-kicked by someone bigger and faster than you - or someone with a gun, bottle, etc.

Then why did you just bring it up? Oh, wait, you have a history of trolling. Thats right.

Oh god. Did you get that from the Manga Canon thread in the Sewers? Thats some ace funny bullshit there.

You've made contradiction into an art form much like how Andy Warhol made a soup can into art.

I'm trying to figure out if you even realize what you're arguing. You're saying that training for a traditional sport isn't as effective at self defense as training for combat as a more fighting-oriented martial art. That's like saying fencing is useless because you're never going to encounter someone in a bar with an epee.

Well - are you? :)

Remember the original post that I had made was about the use of karate as a form of self-defense, and not as a form of exercise. Sadly, this post was deleted by whomever on staff for reasons unknown.

I've taken 3 martial arts for an approximate 10 year span. How do you compare 3 years of training to 10, might I ask? Thats like me saying that my opinion of worthless Star Wars trivia is more valid than your own.

Again, you are mistaken. I have not dropped out. Martial arts is a continual process that doesn't necessarily END when one stops taking classes. Learning comes in different forms and IS a discipline. You are clearly missing that part of the equation.

Training doesn't end just because you don't don a gi and strike poses in front of a mirror. I have no doubt that this is what Karate means to you. Paying a fee and getting a belt...is not what karate is about.

Far from it. You have a thick skull and though you may claim to be the gamingforce resident expert on everything, I again would disagree. Relative inexperience in a given field, in this case Karate, does not equal consummate understanding and the right to reign down torrents of criticism, though feel free to disagree.

I am glad that you've changed your footing here. Obviously your statements weren't all that impressive to begin with if only now you are letting me in on what you really meant...

No shit? And here I was thinking you were making a blanket statement describing aspects of karate as worthless...:rolleyes:

What other martial arts have you seen? Not that it matters...

Oh I guess rudimentary principles are completely worthless, then? Hrrm?

Karate doesn't teach people how to break bones and inflict pain until the student has proven that they are trustworthy to handle the information with responsibility. All of my sensei's have been the same in that regard. If you expected differently, perhaps you should've taken greco roman wrestling instead.

From my experience, Karate teachers don't teach beginners how to utilize the body as a weapon. Most martial arts are the exact same. The first structure of the class involves learning Katta and form. The secondary structure of the class teaches the student how to give movement and impact to that sense of form.
In fact, the black belt is often mistakenly considered to be the "ending point" for understanding and mastering Karate...this is simply not true. If anything, the most intense and concentrated philosophies begin after one has achieved the black belt.

Gouging? LOL, are you serious? Of course Karate doesn't teach eye gouging, what were you expecting. Karate IS NOT wrestling.

Aikido and Shotokan teaches submission... Aikido also shares many familiar roots with basic forms of Karate.

You are making some pretty interesting comments here with belie any real cumulative sense of experience.

That is up to the discretion of the martial artist.

While I somewhat agree with you, we aren't speaking about which one form is more valid than the other. That isn't where this argument stems from. This argument stems from your belief that Karate is worthless as a means for self defense.

Again, see above.

What? Look, the training that a boxer receives will also help them to defend themselves in a real fight. You can't discredit the merit of a martial art on account that one hasn't been able to try its validity in a real fight. Experience means everything in the world, but that doesn't mean that Karate training is worthless. If one puts the teachings to applied use, there is a chance it will reward them for their diligence with allowing them to keep all their teeth intact by deflecting a blow with the pisiform, which might also break the hand of the assailant.

Yea right, volcananus.

No I didn't. Nice try at misinformation to try to make me look off base. Luckily it doesn't really mean much. You know damn well where I am coming from. You threatened someone over the internet and I brought up the point that just because you threaten someone, does not mean that you are a comprehensive source of information on the martial arts.

Is that right? lol This doesn't necessitate anything less than a cheap laugh.

I like how you have this argument which stems from a complete and likely intentional misconception to try to strengthen the bonds of otherwise weak and inexperienced points. Its not going to work because I know what you are doing.

Sadly to say, you are again trying to increase your popularity and argument artificially.

What?

I haven't. Don't act so great you foolish man. You discount the validity of an artform without truly experiencing it to try to inflate your sense of self worth. This is kind of a recurring theme with you, isn't it?

I mean, if in fact we can get other people to think we are exceptional through baseless commentary, perhaps it will make the same true in our own minds as well...

Keep that in mind.

Did you delete your own post and blame it on a mod? HA! Go figure.

I won't respond to this part - aside from saying you're just trolling. Why can't you let go of old fights that you lost and had staff yelling at you from MONTHS PAST?

And I said this when? Or... is this simply your presumption based on the fact that all my posts are directed to you in your own mind? You have this habit of following me around that I'm sure staff here has long noticed.

I'm sure everyone else has noticed how you tend to muck up the place like Elixir use to.

I don't disagree - because I'm not inexperienced.

Gouging is certainly a thing taught in Krav Maga. Its a last resort move, usually for a woman defending herself or when someone is in life or death situations.

I could go on and on with this... but your last part really sums up your quality.

You obviously don't listen to me past your own needs to troll, so I'm just not going to give you the bait in this thread. Do I know stuff about this? Yes, and I'd have liked to have shared, but with your cock-in-ass approach to following me around like a redheaded stepchild has ruined the last couple posts. Staff has warned you about this type of behavior in the past and even OO has told you to shove it - you obviously listen to them as well as you do me.

That said, I've reported you for your inexcusible inanities and only hope that Staff notices I'm going to step aside in the hopes that they do their job again. I may be an asshole - but you're not worth my time when staff can thread ban you with a couple of clicks. All I ask is that they remove all the posts made in response to Rainman because, really, is this guy worth keeping around?

The only style of Karate that I know that can be treated as combat would be the Okinawan style.


Capoeira relies on beats for practice. Best for muscle memory so that in a real life situation, you know how to block that attack and whatnot (sup Kali).

Is Capoeira the one where you're not allowed to use your hands?

Capoeira is the crazy brasilian dancing martial art they made up because black slaves weren't allowed to practice actual martial arts. A lot of crazy spinning and break dance looking moves.

You can, but to a lesser extent. It's mostly groundwork from what I know including sweeps and kicks. Also includes feinting and subterfuge.

I think you were doing more trolling than myself. I've been more than reasonable in replying to your posts. I am not required to show you any more respect than you deserve. ;)

Your comments are far from perfect. Your judgment isn't free from criticism, get used to it.

?

I have no doubt that you know about STUFF. That is not what I am talking about. Again, you know why I questioned your original opinion on this matter, and I've been more than blunt.

Yea. I noticed I've been following you around every second of every day waiting for you to make mistakes in the past few months. Wow. You are really living in the past, not me. I converse with you because it usually makes for an interesting discussion.
You were doing just fine up until now. I did little to offend you, so quit acting like all I try to do is step on your toes. PLEASE.

I have no reason to assume that I am doing anything wrong. I am well aware of what the rules are and am in congruence with them.

I've listened to your argument and responded accordingly. I am not trolling. Quit bitching and crying when someone questions your very fallible opinion.

The mods don't need your help and your patronizing attitude in regards to what they should and shouldn't do. This behavior is unbelievably sheepish and condescending on your part. If you didn't want to talk decisively about Karate, then maybe you shouldn't have posted in this thread to begin with.

I'll leave it at that.

Is this something that is commonly taught or is this more of a cultural thing? I've never heard of anyone trying to take it up.

Btw, here is a Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi. This isn't exactly 'martial arts' perse, but describes the essence of tactical combat relatable to a number of themes and practices in everyday life. Its pretty interesting!

A Book of Five Rings

:tpg: so bad

Sport and excercise are not the same thing, RR. But whatever.

I was in the same boat, although I had a black belt in Taekwondo by the time I was 13, after that I quit. I became interested again around 18, but had trouble fitting it into my schedule. However, I found an alternative that you should look into. The owner of the martial arts school I attended agreed to give me private lessons for an hour every week. I feel like I learned much more in one private lesson than the 2-3 days a week they expect you to go to classes. It was extremely beneficial and I didn't have trouble working 1 hour a week in the evening into my schedule!

I studied Shotokan Karate for 10 years of my life and attained the level of black belt. I learned all of those things and much more.

I feel i should add to the drama going on here and throw in my experience. The practical part of a martial art depends entirely on whether or not you plan to enter tournaments, or to use the martial art purely for improving the self. I took it for self defense purposes, to stay in shape, and for the social aspect of it as well, and as such we learned how to defend against all manner of weapons, attacks, and even how to control yourself in a stressful situation, be it life threatening or not.

Tournament fighting, completely worthless, but if you ask me the whole practice of martial arts tournaments seems kinda pointless to me. The Martial arts have always been about self improvement and self defense to me.