Oh yes mandatory completion of horribly unplayable minigames greatly helps the game's depth.

And take another look at my post. I contradicted my statement that you could never learn the placement of obstacles when I added "till you suffer their effects." This means it's impossible to discover them first play through. It's not helped when Sonic will run off the side of the screen. WHo comes up with this shit?

http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/7...jinakap4ft.jpg

This guy.

It's also possible to run into an enemy accidentally or jump and diagonally kill yourself whilst landing on an enemy in Mario, too. I remember running into a few while running in Mario. It's not like you can't spindash in Sonic, that usually clears things up easily.

Rhetorical but oh well.

i only ever really liked sonic 1 and 2, and occasionally sonic and knuckles. sonic 3 had its moments, but a lot of it really sucked (and in the case of carnival night, really really fucking sucked).

i still think that a lot of the old franchises from sega and nintendo should be given another chance in 2d on current consoles. think of how great that could be! no limitations from the hardware and no space limits either! great effects, huge games, good music... well you get where this could go.

Fixed~

Rab fails at fun, I don't see how childhood memories have anything to do with enjoying the old sonics when I enjoy Sonic Mega Collection just as much now, 2D Mario games are boring in comparison. UNF owned
Well i'd have to go pretty far out of my way to play those games, so i'll just say they don't have some guy rapping about the chaos emerald in the background music, that's one. :D

I thought it was about fun and fast, addicting gameplay that rivals Mario games.

Yuji Naka already said in an interview that he sees pokemon as his main opponent and wants Sonic to defeat that in popularity. Hence the childish attitude, the crappy anime, etc.

Of course you do realize that what you said applies to every platformer at the time do you?

Yuji Naka might be considered a perfectionist, but he also likes having money. Shadow the Hedgehog pretty much demonstrates that he's more interested in what will get Sega money than actually putting out quality games these days. That game exhibits a Jim Davis level of conscious marketability in every aspect, the way they balance cute kid-friendly characters with adolescent-friendly angst and faux-"hardcore" attitude. Gameplay is an afterthought; all that matters is getting people to plunk down $40 for the box.

Unless there's a serious change in focus at Sega, I'm prepared to write them off entirely. They certainly wouldn't be the first great legacy of the past to fall into ruin. I'll always have my emulators, I suppose.

Well, it's frustrating and hard. I found very little fun out of it besides the fact that my beloved Sonic and co. were in it. That factor kept me from completely being bored with the game

It seemed like just another mediocre game that is dressed up with your favorite characters to get a sale. Like all of those Movie-Based games.

As for the music, if anyone cares, it was decent. I loved the main theme and was glad Crush 40 wasn't in it.


BTW, Anyone else getting tired of "Crush 40" in Sonic games? I think they are getting overused now and are starting to sound generic.

Like the Shadow the Hedgehog Theme, I am. It just sounded so generic to me and I guess I'm getting tired of Crush 40. Their music is starting to sound very "similar" and less unique. After "Open Your Heart" and "Live and Learn", I got less and less interested in them. Even though they have good songs.

I think I liked Sonic Rider's music a little more because Crush 40 wasn't in it >_>

Sonic...mediocre?!

Sorry, but as a self obsessed Sonic freak I feel I need to say something about this.

Sonic's recent 3D outings have been, well, pretty dire to be perfectly honest. But I remember playing Sonic Heroes (there were people who thought this game was fun and exciting - me being one of them) and getting the old feeling back. The old feeling I used to get when I played Sonic on the Genesis/Mega Drive.

To be fair, I AM NOT a Sonic expert. I have not played any of his Dreamcast outings, and I do see myself as a bit of an old school fanboy.

But despite that, I still feel that Sonic has a lot of life in him, and though he may be classed as irritating or ugly or whatever, I would never class him as mediocre.

SonicEchidna, I understand how you feel but these Sonic games are really declining.

I've loved Sonic the Hedgehog from the Genesis era but when I see him now, I usually want to vomit.

Sonic has the potential to be great but even as a big Sonic fan, I'd have to say these 3D games I've seen are pathetic.

I did love Sonic Heroes like you. It was a fun game and I still have fun playing it today (in small bursts) but at the end of the day, it doesn't appeal as a "good" game to non-sonic fans.

I usually get blinded by my Sonic love so I usually think a little better about Sonic and Sonic games but it's getting to the point where the recent games are so average...

I'd like to see a great and super fun Sonic game, not an average semi-fun one.

You may feel that Sonic has a lot of life left in him but I feel that the people Sonic is with at the moment are squeezing the life out of him.

Honestly though, people who didn't like Sonic DS probably just failed at the stunt mechanism, or hate platformers. The level design of that game is immaculate.

Sonic Rush was decent. It was fun and showed people that 2D Sonic isn't completely dead.

The only thing I don't really like about it is the enemies. I miss the creative enemies in each level. Now there is only about one different enemy per level or one of those eggman shaped robots.

The current uncreative enemies are boring me. Ever since SA2, they just stopped trying to create unique level enemies.

As much as I hate to admit, this seems to becoming very true. Hopefully, the next generation of video game systems will see Sonic born again. At least I hope that's the case.

It would be a damn shame if Sega simply let Sonic drift away into oblivion after all the success. But the way things are going, that moment could be sooner rather than later.

If they focused more on Sonic doing what he does best (running damn fast and destroying robots), then chances are this thread wouldn't have been made. We need to be overwhelmed by glorious crazy fast action that the Sonic games use to have (at least if you were playng it right). Even DMC understands that better than the Sonic games do.

I really am doubting that the Next Gen Sonic will be anything more then average.

You are right Sega.co, if they focused more on that then it would be a sucess. But then again, we haven't had a true Sonic game since SA2 so I'm curious to see how they will handle it next gen.

I'd like them to pretty much kill of Shadow from the series. I got tired of him after playing Shadow the Hedgehog

I've heard that there are plans to make more Sonic Spinoffs, like sports games maybe...*sigh* Sonic's going the way of Mario, expect with lesser quality games....

True. I mean, I liked Knuckles. He was pink/red and he had a bad ass attitude in Sonic 3. Everybody wanted to know how you could unlock and play as Knuckles, but alas it wasn't possible until Sonic 3 & Knuckles came along. Knuckles Chaotix was just stupid with the "attached via a short distance to an ally" thing, and it went downhill since then.

Sonic 3D wasn't great. I won't comment on CD as I haven't played it, but since they introduced Amy, Big, Cream, E29 and all of those characters, it just wasn't the same.

I think Sonic Adventure was a good game, and Sonic Adventure 2 was a good game. But for every good game which Sega makes, they turn around and make something eighty five hundred times more idiotic.

See what I mean. Sonic CD comes out, then some shit like Knuckles Chaotix comes out. Sonic Adventure comes out, then Sonic Heroes comes out. Adventure 2 comes out, and Shadow the Hedgehog comes out. I don't know if they're deliberately doing this, but it's fucking annoying.

I liked the gem-finding levels in SA2. Dey were da bomb!

Ah yes, the Gem levels, they were the reason Sonic Adventure 1 and 2 weren't the best they could be. Many people expected running and intense action but then they got treasure hunting levels. This isn't Pirate Adventure, it's Soinc Adventure! Sonic Team trys to put so much gameplay into one of their games and usually doesn't execute it right.

A great example of this was Shadow the Hedgehog. They tired to put intense gameplay together but also tried to mix it with "find the bombs!" type missions. When the level design was so horrid that you couldn't even enjoy it. They didn't try to just make a running game. They tired to combine intense action, treasure hunting, mazes, and turrent shooting. But the level designs were so horrible you barely could enjoy any aspects of those different gameplay methods.

One flaw was that, to complete either the dark or hero side, you usually needed to find and kill ALL of the enemies from the side of your choice. This made the game very slow. The only time you got to actually run through a level is on the neutral path. Otherwise, the hero and dark missions usually bore me with the speed I had to go at to make sure I didn't miss one enemy.

Oh, just remembering the 11+ minutes it took me to find all of the Chaos creatures on the maze like level, "The Doom"...

Fukn hate u.
Seriously I played my fair share of Sonic back in the day, mostly on Master System but Mega Drive too and I bought Mega Collection and it's a a piece of shit. Flickies Island is the best game on that disc, not Sonic 3D but the one where you play as flicky. Best.

I think the fact that not only do Nintendo get away with individually repackaging and re-releasing old school Mario games at inflated prices, while seeing those games sell and score better with reviews, than Sonic Gems/Mega Collection ever did prooves taht 2D Mario kicked arse.

Hardly. 2D Sonic's emphasis was speed. Agree? Yes. It moved faster than any other platformer by far. Yet other patformers, with their slower pace allowed you to not only spot oncoming obstacles but react accordingly. I don't know anyone who managed to play Ren and Stimpy's Time Warp so quickly that they never noticed the oncoming enemy until they collided with it.

Yes the recent Sonic games have been pretty lame. I thought Sonic Heroes was bad, and Shadow the Hedgehog I just couldn't get into. Yeah, Shadow the Hedgehog featured Dr.Eggman's most rubbish machine to date! The one with the slot-machine on it! If you know what I'm talking about, you'll understand what I mean when I say it's rubbish. I mean, c'mon Dr.Eggman, what the hell you playing at??? Anyways...
From the footage I've seen, the new sonic game looks like it might be brilliant! We'll just have to hope. Well, I'll forgive Sonic Team for all their recent wrongs if Phantasy Star Universe turns out well : D

I might be interested if they did a Sonic DDR. As for anything

else, well the Mario ones are good...so why not give it a shot?

Sonic did okay in Virtua Striker...the only thing I'd be

concerned about is if they made another Sonic Shuffle.

If they did, they might wanna come up with a different

system instead of cards.

I swear, I didn't want to make that thing! SEGA held me at GUNPOINT! *I* would have made something involving giant swinging balls or perhaps a drill and a slow moving vehicle, but they just wouldn't let me!

Oh, wait, I've changed my username. I guess I can't really do that anymore. Feels... weird.

Not that I would know anyway... I mean, I've certainly never played that Shadow game, it looked so bad and all and... Oh, who am I kidding, I admit it, I rented it. Once. I don't know what came over me, I saw the bad box art, the guns and everything, yet I still had the remnant of that feeling I got when I first bought Sonic 3 for the Genesis that told me "Go ahead, you know you want to. Don't trust other people, it might be the best game ever! It's a sonic game, after all! Can't go wrong with those, right?".

Even my sister laughed at me. Never again.

^Eggman, RABicle, you never fail to make me roffle.

WHAT?! NO. YUJI YOU ARE FIRED. GIMME BACK MY BELOVED FRANCHISE.

You know what? I think partly the reason why Sonic has gotten weaker in games is because of the fans. Yeah, I said it. The younger crowd eats up everything, giving Sega the okay of letting their games suck (read: be mediocre like Shadow). The older crowd is at fault too, simply because most of them are angsty fanboys that argue amongst themselves on what they want on a Sonic game. Most of them want repeats of 3&K, some want some fucked up system that'd be hard to program for (Give him 100 unique moves! SERIOUSLY?!), and some say "screw the story!" Wow, thanks for giving us Sonic Heroes, you bastards.

Can't we have a GOOD story? GOOD gameplay? AWESOME villains? Use the old characters? Sega's either pandering to their fanbase when it shouldn't count or ignoring it when they should, if they just made things good and feel like Sonic, then we wouldn't have these problems.

Sonic himself shows no signs of dying, but if Sega doesn't get their act toggether we might not see anyone over the age of 13 playing anything more recent than Sonic Adventure 2. :(

Yeah, sadly it's true. Look at Sonic X. It has a generic "Robotnik launches robot attack on city, everyone panics, Sonic gets alerted, Sonic saves the day" routine to it. Plus, he has the greenest eyes I've ever seen.

Yuji compares Sonic to Pokemon, yet blatantly fails to notice that Sonic's only competition was Mario. On the plus side, if Sonic didn't exist, I'm sure Toejam and Earl would of been Genesis mascots.