I was getting at the fact that nowadays, people are more apt to put it on their "Favorite Final Fantasy" list without reservation as opposed to the *not really a Final Fantasy* type treatment it received way back when... point taken, though. I don't see Fallout Tactics ever gaining that kind of status. It just isn't a "Fallout" like 1 and 2, hard fact.

Like I needed to tell you.

... I just want to sneak in here that I never said it wasn't criticized. It probably goes without saying, but just feeling insecure and all. So... uh, generally, I don't take fandoms too seriously. Mainly because there's a lot of sound and fury, but usually very little of substance at the end of the day. "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY'RE DOING THIS! I MEAN, I WOULDN'T HAVE A FUCKING CLUE ON WHAT TO DO AS FAR AS ANYTHING COMPETENT GOES, BUT HOLY SHIT I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS!" If the NMA starts speaking in unison, referring to itself like "The Many" from System Shock 2 does, I'd probably be very unsettled if I were Bethesda.

Good on Roshambo if he did get something changed on the game. I wasn't there, but I'll take the good word for what it's worth.

Getting some mileage out of that new membership, eh?

Read post above mine.

Read my post.

Replace Final Fantasy with Fallout and Capcom with Bethesda.

Get the god damn joke. *sigh*

Dude, that's not cool.

That's never cool.

Rosh used to be a pretty intimidating guy and actually worked in the gaming industry. Now he's making his own RPGs with a writing team.

What really keeps Tactics from entering a "favorites" list, is partially because there's only 3 Fallout games worth playing ;) and because in it's own genre it's not that hot. FFT is still a great tactical RPG, but Tactics is still overshadowed by Jagged Alliance.

Has Capcom ever done any work with the Final Fantasy franchise?

And Brady, FFT had chocobos and a guy named Cid (and possibly moogles, I forget), that makes it as much as a Final Fantasy as anything else up until FFX-2. :p

Yeah, FFT did in fact have moogles, only they were enemies instead of allies (well, you COULD make them your allies if you really wanted to, though). I wouldn't call it a Final Fantasy though, more like a Tactics ogre in a FF shell. Still, one of the better games ever made imo.

You kind of missed his point. And that is that is a company with a track record of making a certain kind of product over and over taking another property which is completely different and slapping their robotic touch is going to get expected results and, well, expectations. Capcom taking FF7 and turning it into a Megaman clone but with angst (which btw probably would be interesting but you get the idea, playing as Barret might finally give his machine gun meaning) would be similar to Bethesda taking Fallout and turning it into Oblivion with guns. It doesn't mean it'll be complete garbage but expect knee-jerk reactions based on the company's recent actions and now this visual evidence.

Eh, Capcom got the rights to make the handheld Zelda games and they turned out fine. You're automatically assuming a company will get their mitts on something and try to just transform it into a game they've already made. That's pretty silly.

While I admit Capcom did a fine job with Minish Cap (and to an extent with the Oracle games), this doesn't apply to Bethesda. If Capcom's Zelda games were the first foray to 3D and changing the system and structure dramatically, maybe.

As it stand, I'm feeling the same as I was when Ubisoft announced Rainbow Six 4: Lockdown. It looked awful, it sounded awful as a concept, but not because I just felt opposing for the sake of it, but because it ditched everything that had made the originals special in the first place except original setting, and compromising the rest. And in the end it was a terrible sequel. Sure, it was a competent, linear FPS game made for consoles. But it didn't have what made Rainbow Six special.

I think these days, I would worry more about the development studio that gets their hands on a title than anything else. For everything we've learned about game development, I sometimes thing... think that referring to the main company itself is something of a side-show to people who probably know something of substance about this business itself. The kind of eye we get into development these days is great, especially in comparison to the kind of reaching I remember doing in 1999/2000 on gaming. And especially now because I can do a much better job at faking an informed opinon.

I'm of the mindset that Ken Levine would make a killer Fallout 3, based off what Bethesda has just shown us. Doesn't make it a good idea, but I still like games guys.

I was confused because the post above yours referenced a real precedent (Sort of) that turned out well, i.e. Final Fantasy being given to Quest people to develop the spin-off game Final Fantasy Tactics. Then you basically made the exact same post for some reason (At first I thought you were giving a counter-example but I guess you were just reinforcing his) and used Final Fantasy and Capcom. Unlike the post above, I couldn't think of when this actually happened, and thus I asked what game you were making a reference to, that's all.

Also, no need to be a condescending jackass about it, Jesus.

Hey did you guys hear they're making a Mario RPG?!? That is a deviation from the established Mario formula and therefore inherently wrong!

And it's being developed by SQUARE ugh. Square made FINAL FANTASY MYSTIC QUEST, which sucked! Therefore this will ALSO suck. This game is going to be nothing but Final Fantasy with Goombas

Why are they throwing away what made Mario so special

Difference is that Square's ideas for Mario RPG didn't look like complete shit.

And I also apologize for my brusqueness, Nick. I really shouldn't try to post on GFF while I'm coming down with stomach flu. :gonk:

In fairness back when Mario RPG was in development studios weren't under constant pressure to let people fiddle around with their alpha builds

http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2007/20070314.jpg

I grant you the nuclear catapult is kind of silly. It's not like FO2, with the Magic Purple Robe you got for playing along with FO2's constant Monty Python references. Oh, and the shotgun weddings to useless meatsacks. And the MAGIC DREAM SEQUENCES urging you along on an unwinnable quest. Or the plants with thorns in their mouths and when they open their mouths they spit thorns at you. THAT shit made sense! Not like a weapon that makes things go boom. That is UNREASONABLE

Look, you can theoretically argue that the only way to make a "true" Fallout sequel is to hand it over to the original Black Isle guys, but they're mostly at Obsidian now and all they want to do is reskin KOTOR2 over and over. Did you know? The way to make everyone respect you is to just agree with them about everything! Then they will happily lay down their lives.

If only all the other Final Fantasies had grid-based combat. :(

In all fairness, nobody is arguing that Fallout 2 wasn't stupid.

I don't think any license actually takes a game, turns it into a completely different genre, and then markets it as the next part in a series. It's the reason they didn't call Mario 64 "Mario X."

It's why they called it Final Fantasy Tactics and not Final Fantasy 8. Remember how pissed off people were about FFX-2? Nevermind that it was actually more interesting than normal Final Fantasies, people were still going into big nerd rage.

In series people expect to be marketed more of the same. When you market a game that's fundamentally different as a direct sequel, it implies that no other games in the series are going to be like the predecessors.

I'm pretty sure they called it that because it was on the N64. You know, or else WipEout, Star Fox, Ogre Battle, Mario Kart, etc would all have proper numbers.

Following that logic, they should've called Metroid Prime, Metroid Cubed. It's not because of a marketing tie in, it's because the games exist within a franchise but not as a part of an established series.

While I think the 64 did at times simply refer to being on N64 (like the Super moniker in front of nearly every non Mario SNES game), I do agree that it wasn't like that all the time. Bomberman 64 and its type had a double deal of showing their the N64 version AND very different from previous games. This is why I balk at people who say Zelda 64.

So a game doesn't count as a sequel now unless it has a consecutive numeral tacked on?

Man, the Castlevania series was just annihilated. Castlevania 3 was pretty good but when will a new one come out?! All we are getting is these spinoffs! These guys aren't even Simon! What the FUCK

I suddenly feel like everybody is losing this argument.

You're the one losing this argument, because Fallout 3 will fucking rock. Morrowind would have been a good game if it wasn't for the lame, uninspired fantasy setting. Now, Morrowind with the setting of Fallout, well, I would play the shit out of that game.

After looking this shit up in terms of shots and from what I've heard, this sounds nothing like Fallout anymore. The beginning of the game sounds like a pain in the ass, and is ridiculously drawn out much more than it needs to be. Third-person Oblivion view, despite how many times they can rework it, will not match the isometric overhead view of the first 2 games. It also kind of pisses me off that they're going from straight turn-based to an action hybrid. That doesn't play anything like the first 2.

Honey pie, look, we value your input but we do not need you to make this post since Brady already made the very same post. Yes! Different is bad! Always! Thank you but goodbye =/

For fucksake SMB2 (US) did not "play anything like" SMB

What are these turnips

They were not there before

Who told you to add turnips

Pang, Nintendo still had control over their property and oversaw Square and their work on Super Mario RPG. If there were people from Black Isle Studios overseeing Bethesda developing Fallout 3 then I might agree with you.

Additional Spam:
Oh Pang you're so silly. Yeah we all know SMB2 is a dokidokipanikuferlagbogostan with Mario characters painted on top because lols arabian nights or whatever its based off of wouldn't settle well for amerikkka. But hell some things such as enemies and character control from the game have turned into Mario canon. Shy guys and Birdo have their moments in the sun every now and then too. They should totally give both of them their own games. That'd be pretty bad and rad and totally mad.

So am I the only person that thought after trying to play Oblivion that the game would be a lot more fun with guns, a non-shit fantasy setting, and losing that well-intended but poorly executed scaling difficulty (and would also like to see some sort of Diablo-esque skill tree introduced)?

This must be some other kind of parody.

This isn't what I'm saying, Pang. Don't act like u no.