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-   -   [General Discussion] Overused Gaming Conventions (http://www.gamingforce.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2124)

Josiah Mar 21, 2006 05:30 AM
Getting hurt or killed by simply touching a bad guy, no matter how passive they look. I haven't seen it as much nowadays, but I thought it was really ridiculous with games like Contra.

RABicle Mar 21, 2006 06:19 AM
Boss Battles are the worst convention in gaming. Seriously they were invented back in the days of arcade gaming, not because they made the game better but because YOU DIED FORCING YOU TO THROW MORE MONEY TO KEEP PLAYING.

Not to mention boss battles are totalbullshit anyway. hey every other soldier only takes two bullets to take down but not this guy! No no he takes 100 bullets. What is this shit? Weak.

Overkill Mar 21, 2006 08:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josiah
Getting hurt or killed by simply touching a bad guy, no matter how passive they look. I haven't seen it as much nowadays, but I thought it was really ridiculous with games like Contra.
Well, it was a really easy way keep players at safe distances at all times without having to draw a bunch more attack animations. I guess it might not make sense for some enemies, but it makes perfect sense in shmup where you colliding with another ship is death, or if the enemy's a bouncing fireball or something. Yeah it is a little ridiculous though, but I'm not that annoyed by it. However, something as general as this isn't really a candidate for overuse I think.

Another convention you need to find odd though is jumping on things' heads to defeat them. Although if somebody landed straight on your head, it probably would defeat you.

Sword Familiar Mar 21, 2006 08:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwarky
I've gotten pretty tired of the way none of the female characters in RPGs wear proper armor. I mean sure, I like the female form and a bit of cleavage never hurt, but it's just so incredibly DEPRESSING that even after decades, designers still can't get over themselves and devise some proper protective gear for characters who are supposed to be engaged in combat for 90% of the game. Why make chestplates shaped like breasts? Battle armor can be attractive looking without a massive hole for cleavage or a two inch long skirt. WHY WOULD THEY EVEN WEAR A SKIRT IN FUCKING COMBAT? It's more offputting and insulting of gamer intelligence to see it constantly used in the wrong context.
I pretty much agree on you on this. But then again, this makes it that more refreshing to see that SOME companies actually CAN make tasteful armor for women. Lenneth from Valkyrie Profile anyone?

http://www.everyeye.it/public/immagi...06/lenneth.jpg

Single Elbow Mar 21, 2006 01:06 PM
Unless Lenneth's skirt is made out of silk mythril, that's still prone to wear and tear.

One convention struck me oddly was the fact that during cutscenes I was treated to one-hit blows by the heroes and heroines YET when you play the game it takes several hits for the enemy to take down. What's this God mode crap I'm seeing?

Why don't they just hit the enemy repeatedly and weaken them? God. Like Devil May Cry 3 for example, In the very first stage, Dante shoots and slashes all the demons in his wake IN ONE HIT yet when you control him it takes about 5-6 slashes and a full clip of bullets to take those demons down.

map car man words telling me to do things Mar 21, 2006 01:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sword Familiar
Mm, while it's certainly not that functional, it's at least tasteful (not to mention happens to look good as well), as you said. And that's a hell of a lot better than most Japanese character/armor designs.

Similarly, while many of the characters in something like Final Fantasy Tactics don't exactly wear entirely functional attire for close combat battle, the outfits themselves are entirely tasteful and fitting and the knights actually wear proper armor.

http://www.avalancheonline.com/Cdcovers/fftfront.jpg

Single Elbow Mar 21, 2006 01:21 PM
Q: You remind me of Wyna from Thousand Arms whose armor was just.. er. Her armor was just a two-piece bikini. What?

http://www.chainsawsurgery.com/zombi...mages/wyna.jpg
Someone tell me how the hell she can survive cannon blasts in a fucking two-piece.

But yeah, I stick to what I've said before. One hit kills for the lose.

map car man words telling me to do things Mar 21, 2006 01:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminus
Q: You remind me of Wyna from Thousand Arms whose armor was just.. er. Her armor was just a two-piece bikini. What?
Well, you only need to look at any random few recent console RPGs to see how ridiculous it still is.

http://tales.namco.com/legendia/imag...le/large12.jpg

http://simplyff.free.fr/FF12/artworks/ashe.jpg http://www.rpgkingdom.net/images/med...nacarta/23.jpg

http://www.gamespot.be/images/babesp...tsCovenant.jpg http://www.rpgkingdom.net/images/tests/sh3/sh3_17.jpg

Spatula Mar 21, 2006 02:50 PM
When I saw Qwarky talking about the (lack of) female armor, Lenneth was also the first female character that popped into my mind of at least decent armor, as well as Chris from Suikoden III.

So here's a thing that I mentioned in the FFXII thread regarding RPGs in general:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spatula
I'm wondering if there are any well...snow plains or terrain because I want to know of SquareEnix addresses the issue of characters changing their attire to suit the weather. This bothered me in FFX where Tidus and the gang would wear summer wear for like the Highland plains. As much as I'm hoping for, I doubt it will happen here.
A couple other things is how come, not only in FF games, but pretty much every other RPG game the monsters will ALWAYS team up against YOU; do they have some secret vendetta against your traveling party or something? You'll find the strangest combinations of like a Flim Flan teaming up with like a Bird or something which really don't have much in common, but the only thing on their agenda is to KILL YOU. I think this is why I generally enjoy fighting human like characters (seeing in the first few clips of FFXII) because you know the enemies have a reason to hunt your party down - this time probably because its a political difference in their system that they will wage war against your party.
So basically:

1) Proper clothes for the characters to cope with the environmental elements.

2) Monsters that well...behave more natural. But it does look like FFXII is stepping in the right direction reading a few replies after.

Sword Familiar Mar 21, 2006 07:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminus
Unless Lenneth's skirt is made out of silk mythril, that's still prone to wear and tear.
You don't need mythril if you have divine ether coating.

Edit: Besides, she clearly has armor underneath it aswell.

Darkcomet72 Mar 21, 2006 08:11 PM
The lack of lack of realism I see in games and seemingly disappointing gaming conventions that bring in complaints and arguments of lack of realism despite the fact that many efforts are made to prevent lack of realism is pretty annoying.

EDIT: What the heck...

I was drunk when I posted this. But I still stand by my word, because I actually understand what I said.

Manny Biggz Mar 21, 2006 08:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottonabs

And I'm sick of RPGs where you are out to save the world. It is so, so tiresome. Why aren't any of the heroes ever motivated by something more selfish?
Ever play Drakengard? While in the end it does still use the save the world bit, the main character is a asshole with a vendetta.

Contracts Mar 21, 2006 08:53 PM
Basically horror games that involve heavy use of Zombies, I don't care any game that has Zombies as a main focus in the 'enemy' area starts to feel really corny, Thats why I think Capcom felt they had to re-vamp the survival horror aspect and put real people instead of Zombies.

Skwerl Mar 21, 2006 10:25 PM
H fucking DR. I cant see crap with that thing enabled -_-

Spatula Mar 21, 2006 10:36 PM
The more I look at this picture...the more I wonder how the hell she'd survive with a fire ball blast, lest even a cast of Ultima in her groin region. Oh wait, let's back up a bit and put in a strike of a regular sword.

Oh well,

MAY contain spoilers in the very first bit of FFXII:
Her husband dies anyways, so no big loss. This really isn't spoiler material now is it? It's shown in the first 7 minutes of the opening CG.


I guess it's convenient for a quickie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qchan

Single Elbow Mar 21, 2006 10:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sword Familiar
You don't need mythril if you have divine ether coating.
That sounds like a lacquer paint and a primer from Dutch Boy man.

Spatula Mar 21, 2006 10:48 PM
Sounds like Gunpla talk.

Sword Familiar Mar 22, 2006 02:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminus
That sounds like a lacquer paint and a primer from Dutch Boy man.

It is.

Inhert Mar 22, 2006 03:04 AM
ok i understand the female armor that doesn't really protect but when a character that is not a fighter (mage class I could say) they don't need a full plate to fight >.> so about half the screen you post Qwarky are not good >.>

but when you look at that :

http://lineage2.gameamp.com/modules/...loads/4355.jpg

and it's suppose to be a fighter, ok it may look good but doen't give any protection >.>

Josiah Mar 22, 2006 04:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwarky
Similarly, while many of the characters in something like Final Fantasy Tactics don't exactly wear entirely functional attire for close combat battle, the outfits themselves are entirely tasteful and fitting and the knights actually wear proper armor.

http://www.avalancheonline.com/Cdcovers/fftfront.jpg
Tasteful? Are you kidding? Yeah, I'll admit that's better than most, but these guys look like they are consciously concerned about their waist size. :eyebrow: That's beside the point, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkill
Well, it was a really easy way keep players at safe distances at all times without having to draw a bunch more attack animations. I guess it might not make sense for some enemies, but it makes perfect sense in shmup where you colliding with another ship is death, or if the enemy's a bouncing fireball or something. Yeah it is a little ridiculous though, but I'm not that annoyed by it.
I can understand with the shmups, but come on, how hard can it be to add in attack animations? A good deal of the guys in Ninja Gaiden for example had them, even though it might be them just brandishing a bat or something as they walk, but that's good enough for me. (Even though the same thing still happened. You could walk up to them from behind and still get hurt.)

Well anyways, on another note, how about all those 'bottomless' pits where falling down typically means instant death (or sometimes a loss of health)? Practically every Mega Man game has them (if not all of them, including the X games). And yeah, I know they might be in places where it'd make sense, like say off a skyscraper or something, but sometimes that's not the case, and either way, I think it is (or has been) used too much.

Overkill Mar 22, 2006 01:08 PM
Well, for the "bottomless pit" thing, I assume it's the lazy or less violent and animation-intensive way to show that the player clearly splattered their head open on the cold pavement. Plus, simple map-wide deathtraps like this one ensure you're not stupid.

Hmm, how about platformers, which have grass platforms levitating several hundred feet above the earth without any believable supports. They could at least make the damned things "hover" a bit if they're floating, since it'd be more believable. Although, believability and realism isn't always the primary focus, with gameplay usually being up there instead

Contracts Mar 22, 2006 03:37 PM
Well technically, The worlds in Platforming games are meant to be fantasy, I've never really played a 'realistic' platformer were they took Physics into account.

Kaiten Mar 22, 2006 03:47 PM
What bothers me is the fact that in most games, you don't start out with a good looking badass skill. But when you get later in the game they are plentiful to come by and in fact the best looking skill isn't the strongest.
Also why in RPGs is there a damage/HP limit? You'd expect your strength to be able to break the boundaries of 9999 damage, but no only enimies can do that. It's also funny that while you have max HP much lower than most enimies (especially later in the game), you do a hell of a lot more damage than they do. If they did anywhere as near as much damage as you did, you'd die on the first boss battle.

map car man words telling me to do things Mar 22, 2006 03:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by www.sega.co.jp
What bothers me is the fact that in most games, you don't start out with a good looking badass skill. But when you get later in the game they are plentiful to come by and in fact the best looking skill isn't the strongest.
Also why in RPGs is there a damage/HP limit? You'd expect your strength to be able to break the boundaries of 9999 damage, but no only enimies can do that. It's also funny that while you have max HP much lower than most enimies (especially later in the game), you do a hell of a lot more damage than they do. If they did anywhere as near as much damage as you did, you'd die on the first boss battle.
That's a pretty typical compromise for player enjoyment, it seems. Like in first person shooters, you can down most enemies with a single head shot, but most of the time you can withstand quite a few bullets before you go down (unless it's Operation Flashpoint or one of the tactical FPS games in the style of Rainbox Six). Very rarely are there games where the player is just as vulnerable as the enemies (unless you count 2D shmups)


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