I like how that "9/11 like event" was presented in the most callous "who cares" actual factual way. Immediately shift to firemen sifting through rubble. :salutetrueheroes:

NEVAR 4GET.

It's intresting that when politics "invade" our entertainment - even though we hate it, our discussion level increases.

Cap isn't dead and the government didn't try to kill him...

Then what the fuck is Tony bawling to in The Confession?

I didn't read it, but I'll assume it's simply that his actions, and the actions of government, led to his death. Thus, in a way, making him responsible.

I'm referring to Tony crying out his heart to Steve's corpse, not what he's whining about. The guy's dead, a fact contested by Muck.

There's a dead body in a Captain America suit that we know acted like Cap for a brief amount of time. Whether it was truly Cap, we don't know, but the remains are convincing enough to fool Sharon and Tony, assuming they are fake. If not, he really did die and will come back.

I'm inclined to accept that Steve Rogers is dead. Someone else can be Captain America now. Remember John Walker was the Captain before becoming the Avenger US Agent? The man inside the costume may die but there'll always be a Captain America.

It's not a fact. It was stated in Civil War: The Initiative that Cap is alive.

I'll provide the quote if you want, but Quesada admitted that Ms. Marvel told that lie with the hopes that it would lead to the New Avengers attempting a break-out and, thus, get caught. This did not happen.

Ok, so he's actually dead. Good. It was confusing having two different statements.

You guys realize that the issue with Iron Man trying to get the New Avengers was last week?

I don't, because I don't follow New Avengers, but it's conceivable that those two could be trying different ways to accomplish the same goal. Or that Iron Man acted after Ms. Marvel's strategy didn't work.