Initially before reading these replies, I was dead-set on staying and forgiving my cheating gf/wife. If it were my gf I could obviously understand as relationships exist to see if people are compatible with each other, and I wouldn't hold it against her or be bitter. If it were my wife, I would be forgiving, because I always think that I have just as much of a chance of losing myself in a "moment of weakness" or would be tempted to try something new. Maybe I'm deluding myself into thinking that the best case scenario of genuine repentance from the cheating party would occur and they would make an utmost effort to patch up our relationship, but I would be forgiving.

However, I'm now moreso undecided after reading the KEY point of cheating being a definite stab to the concept of trust. That's deep, and as forgiving as you can be, you would also have to be incredibly trusting (not necessarily naive) to keep the relationship in a stable shape. Of course, I can say that I would be willing to trust, but perhaps my personality will subtly change towards my gf/wife after I caught them cheating, and things would eventually become sour over time. I would like to think that cheating is a regrettable mistake, even though that might not always be the case with some people and their lusts.

Every cheater I've known, girls and guys alike never learn to stop. 'Once a cheater, always a cheater', the phrase has been accurate in my expierances.

I'm also bad about holding grudges... so...

Cheating is a deal breaker imo.

Well, that's my point. I was hoping people wouldn't base their decision off of something they know nothing about.
It's easy to say you'd react a certain way if you haven't been through it.

Me, I was cheated on 3 times, by the same guy within a 4 year period. We weren't engaged or anything like that, but I loved him. A lot. Probably more than anyone could ever love a person and I DID stay with him afterward.
However, as many people have stated, you just get to a point where you can't trust them, no matter how hard you try, and you're always going to think that when they are going out it's to see someone else.

You just can't ever get that level of trust back. I think the people saying they'd stick it through are full of shit, especially since they don't really know.

I thought I'd be with this guy forever. But there's only so much betrayal you can take before you've had enough.

And it takes such an emotional blow to the very core of your being.
I don't know anyone, including myself, that have been the same after being cheated on.

Also, it really doesn't matter whether or not there is an emotional attachment or if it's just physical. It still hurts either way. Even though I know he truly loves me, the thought of what he did makes me sick, and from my own experience and stupidity, anyone who thinks they can stick it through is dumb.

A relationship should never be broken or have to be fixed.

Please learn how to read.

Alice never said that she did not believe in monogamy. She said that humans are NOT monogamous by nature. Just like every other animal, humans have an instinct to procreate. When in a relationship, you will still find other people attractive. You will still lust after other people. It's human nature.

She said she didn't believe humans were monogamous by nature. It's pretty much saying you don't believe in monogamy. Otherwise, it would be a little on the hypocritical side.

I'm not -saying- that you can't be attracted to someone else while being in a relationship. But looking and touching are two different things. Two entirely, different things.

...

You're serious aren't you? I don't really know how to respond to this, since it's obvious that you don't have any reading comprehension.

Stating that humans are not monogamous by nature =/ saying that you don't believe in monogamous relationships.

Uh, yeah, I am serious.
Don't you think it would be a little retarded to make one claim about something if you yourself didn't believe in it?

But she never said she didn't believe in monogamy...

Lunar Seal, she's not making the same claim. Alice didn't say she didn't believe in monogamy but is saying that humans are not monogamous by nature. So while men have urges to go and plant their seed in as many women as possible because they're biologically programmed that way, many men resist that urge because humans aren't exactly animals and have free will, morals, respect, etc that stops them.

It's like saying, it's against our nature to reject fatty foods because our bodies are programmed to tell us that it tastes good and that we want more and want to eat as much as possible. But health concious people still won't eat too much fat because they know it's bad for them. Same thing with marriage. You don't cheat in a marriage because while you do believe in monogamy, your brain sometimes tempts you to cheat but will power, respect for your wife, morals or whatever stops you.

Then basically she's making an excuse for her husband to go screw someone else based on an opinion/fact/whatever she thinks it is.

K? Okay.

Whether or not humans are monogamous by nature doesn't matter. It all depends on the person. I believe humans can be monogamous by nature. It's not really up for anyone to decide other than yourself.

But again, as I've said already, you can't state something you know nothing about, which clearly she doesn't.

Urgh. Read this. They didn't teach you about fallacies at school?

You have disputed the claim that humans are not homogenous by nature, without providing any evidence other than "I believe it is so". Now, I haven't done enough research on this subject to claim any view on the truth either way, so I'll just reiterate what she claims, hopefully clearing it up for you.

You seem to struggle with what she means with "by nature". She's talking about the human as an animal basically. As most of us know, we're more than animals and are able to suppress and control our natural urges (to some extend). But it doesn't take away the fact that we still have the natural urges that we are born with.

She's stating a general observation about human nature, which she even backed up with a statistic. You have done no such thing, instead using fallacies to try to get your way.

It's obvious that Lunar Seal is never going to be persuaded. She's been cheated on and she's letting her emotions dictate her beliefs on this subject, without really thinking things through. Also, she seems to have a pretty severe reading comprehension problem. Lunar, I'll happily share with you various articles and studies on the subject of humans and monogamy if you'd like. I found an ton of them yesterday.

Also, I'm not making an excuse for my husband to go screw anyone. I can't imagine that he would ever do that; I just find it incomprehensible that a person would be so immature as to throw away a perfectly good marriage just because her husband happened to perform a physical act that basically boils down to sticking his dick into someone other than her. To me, that's just not thinkable. I wouldn't throw away everything I have with my husband and ruin my children's home life because of an act that probably didn't mean anything anyway.

Come back and talk to me after you've been married to the same person for over a decade, have had children with him and have built a life around him...and also when you've learned to read. Then we'll discuss this like two rational adults.

It's very likely that human nature would explain the human proclivity to cheat, mainly because human nature is essentially warped and malevolent. It's important to note that "nature", meaning the way things are without societal influence, is not in any way necessarily equivalent to "good." So, of course, calling something natural would be a meager excuse for it. Human nature is selfish, brutal and violent.

On the other hand, forgiveness, which is definitely not a natural tendency, is a good thing, regardless of culture or religion. That being the case, it would probably be best to forgive someone for any act of infidelity provided it was an expression of human nature (fallibility) and not an expression of what is "in his/her heart".

In general, I would say it is beneficial and wise to forgive all actions provided they're a breech in character, but not to tolerate someone with selfish or malevolent heart. I think it's pretty simple to tell the difference by spending plenty of time with the person and observing whether the occurrence is repeated or if there is some progress. There should be a limit, not to forgiveness, but to the frequency of unfaithful acts beyond which one would equate the occurrence to a problem of the heart and not the will; in which case, it would be wise and beneficial to get rid of the person in question. Kids complicate the issue, but consider the negative impact of staying with a cheater and weigh them with the consequences of leaving. Might it be more embarrassing and traumatic for the kid to grow up knowing his father is a cheat and his mother a doormat?

Being married and having children doesn't make you more wise on the subject.
I've got my opinion, you have yours.
We'll call it a day and leave it at that.

I'm "ragging" on her because she contradicts herself. She never stated she didn't believe in monogamy, yes. But you know, I find it interesting that she presents all this information about how monogamy is against human nature, so clearly, if her husband ever did have an affair, atleast she shouldn't be surprised.

All I'm getting at is she -doesn't- know how she'd react. It's easy to sit here and spat out an opinion when you don't have the experience. The question was "would you stay with someone if they cheated, or have you?"

Okay. So she claims she might give her husband a second chance if he did cheat. But she doesn't really know that. I'm sure she would stick it out, atleast for the sake of her kids, because that's probably what I would do.

But you don't know until you've been through it.
I hope for her sake, she never does know.

But if it does, then she has no right to be upset about it, because she's aware that it's a normal human thing.

I personally don't believe in the statistics. Just because a bunch of people do one thing doesn't make it right or true for the rest of us.
I believe in what's in the heart, not a bunch of numbers or surveys.

Even if I'm wrong, I still want to believe that. She's a realist. I have faith in human kind.

That's all I'm saying.

Her experience in being married is irrelevent to my question. That's all I was getting at. It doesn't matter if you're married, engaged, been going out for a month, whatever. The fact of the matter is that is has nothing to do with the question.

And stop ragging on me because I disagree with the theory that humans are programmed to be cockshoving dickwipes. If you want to make excuses for peoples shitty behaviour, go ahead, but I won't.

If cheating was natural, it wouldn't be an act of deception, and it wouldn't be such a problem. Open relationships are fine if you can deal with it. And it clearly depends on the type of person you are.

End of story.

I like how the thread starter made this thread just to start shit. What's up with that? Everyone has their little hypocracies, but that's how it is - it's called personality. If Alice doesn't believe people are hardwired to be monogamous* and yet is still in a monogamous relationship, why are you bothered?

* While it's true that we're not hardwired to be solely monogamous - which is obvious with all the cheatin' - we're also obviously not wired to be polgamous, otherwise marriage as we know it would not exist. Christ, it's obvious.

Somehow I am reminded of Technophile and his thread about "sex and relationships."

If you want to start a thread about opinions, you should keep your mind open to what they have to say. Its an open discussion, not a debate (its not the political place.) While you can voice your thoughts on the matter, it should not come at the expense of the views of other members.

It wasn't created to be a debate thread, but sometimes that's how things turn out.

I'm not going to turn this into a "she started it first" argument. I just don't agree entirely with what she's saying.

And that's why everyone has got their own opinion.
I'm not bothered with hers. We just don't have the same views or beliefs, that's all.

Then why have you been attacking her personally? Typing exercise? =D

Once trust has been broken, it can never be brought back. Trust is something that is earnt, and once someone chooses to break it in half, there is no way it can be repaired.

I've been in more than one relationship where I've been cheated on... I threw away everything to do with them. Cheating is the same as lying. They both break your trust. And once broken trust becomes a part of the relationship, the relationship may aswell not even exist in the first place... No matter how much it means to you.

There is not a single chance I could ever stay with someone, if they cheated on me.

Expanding on this thought, what do you think the point of the emotion "love" is.

Do you think love is real?

I feel the same way, but a little different. Sex is just sex, but I don't want my husband running around cheating on me with the excuse that he was "only having some sex." Thats fucking silly.

But an EMOTIONAL connection to another woman would destroy me, and I would likely put my tail between my legs and scamper off into the sunset.

I would tolerate neither, but I would be more UNDERSTANDING of "just sex."

Also, I think that resentment in any relationship will eventually fucking DETROY it. Never leave something open-ended where you can find the will to resent your partner. It will kill your relationship.