Just not perfection.

So what? No game will ever be perfection. When a movie critic gives two thumbs up, do you expect 'perfection' or just a great movie?

When I see 10/10, it kind of implies perfection. What is the issue here? The fact I see GTAIV as anything but perfect, shouldn't imply that I love it or hate it, so why is it that I get this feeling that people assume I do hate it when I say it isn't perfection? I don't think it's a perfect game, there are things about its game design that don't lend to that, but when I bring this up, I have someone there to bring in its meta content as if game flaws disappear and can't just be "redeemed" via this side content.

So what? Skills point fucking stands, that's what. 8.7 isn't a bad rating for GTAIV, it's more like a realistic one. Feel free to challenge the assertion.

Because there's no way in hell it deserves this many 10/10s when other, equally deserving titles do not hit the same mark. If this is a 10/10, so is Bioshock. So is Super Mario Galaxy. So on and so forth. Objectively (or as close as one can get to it), there is no way that this is the best game in a decade. I'm not hating on it, but fucking open your eyes, folks.

And indeed, kinda funny that an 8.7 is considered SUPER LOW OH MY GOD WHAT THE FUCK IS GOING ON. It's hardly negative. It's just a tad bit more realistic here.

The way how I see it:

When reviewers give a game 10s on more than one account, it just feels like they hopped on the hype train.

I'm sorry, but if you're operating on a review system with only 11 discrete values then reserving one for an unattainable scenario is retarded. In fact, by extension of your logic, there's only nine available review scores, because to give something a zero would imply it is the terrible on every level such as to have no redeemable qualities (the antithesis of perfect if you will).

That, my friend, is stupid.

But then most sites don't operate on scores out of ten, they operate on scores out of a hundred, with a dot in the middle. So, a 10 out of 10 covers more ground than 10.0 out of 10.0

I'm not saying it shouldn't be a ten because it's not "perfect". Ocarina of time is a 10 and it was hardly perfect. But IV has too many shortcomings and oversights despite being an excellent game. 9.0-9.4 then, but hardly 10.0

That's the hype talk in people. :p

If people started thinking more about how mathmatically it works, rather than basing it on every other system out there, a 5 would mean average.

I don't know why people that are blinded by the reviewers setting up a system where they can't even enforce it properly. At this point it's like anything below a 7 and people view it as fugly.

Asking a publication to live up to their review system is suddenly stupidity and I'm suddenly not capable of anything but A is A, law of identity, Rorschach, Ayn Rand Objectivism level thinking? All because they have a scale which is inherently flawed for anything but an objectivist's black and white judgment? Cut the fucking shit, Omagnus. If there's anyone or any group of people who's been making concessions and seeing things in gray about GTAIV, it's myself and others. Not reviewers.

True, but given that most review scales are bound by 10 meaning perfection, that doesn't speak too well on what critics have to say for themselves. Especially when they start making concessions to a game that they weren't making to other titles. This isn't honesty, it's appeasement if anything. EGM's review was an especially hilarious read, given that they had to explain why their scale says one thing and why they say another thing.

The shoe doesn't fit.

I guess a person's opinion is that a game is perfect, given that critics and reviews are basically professional opinions. I don't take issue when it happens, I take issue when the shit doesn't necessarily line up. Why a groundbreaking game suddenly has to be "perfection" (and that's being kind) baffles me.

I'm not saying GTA IV is perfect, it isn't. I don't care to operate in terms of discrete values for ratings even if they extended to a hundred of them rather than ten. I'm not arguing that 8.7 is bad or any of that bollocks, and I agree that giving 100% is probably misleading (10/10 is different though).

Rotor: I was leveling an argument at the interpretation of a 10/10 score, nothing to do with what GTA deserves. Most places that review with an out of 5, or out of 10 style system tend to have descriptions of their reviewing policy which states that 5/5 or 10/10 doesn't imply perfection, just getting close to it.

For example, Eurogamer's policy says this about scores of 10:

EGM already having a disclaimer in place, they certainly felt their review would be controversial enough to merit a handful of words regarding why they were rating the game as 10/10. Again, my point isn't to argue the scale or the disclaimer. I KNOW those things are there. We're talking about a game receiving this score with a disclaimer when several other games, as Skills pointed out, would deserve the same thing given the circumstances.

Granted EGM is one place out of many, but it does seem a bit funny when everyone just falls in line. Where's the integrity? These people are supposed to be professionals, so where's the consistency? It's hilarious how low of a standard this is, and what we accept. Thankfully these are video games, and nothing of actual importance. Most people ask for a low end on bullshit and some honesty, not Cover Your Ass.

I should clarify. All my comments meant was that it was nice to see a reviewer not succumb to the "peer review" process. My sheep comment merely referenced that, and "integrity" was probably the wrong word. It was not a reference to money hats as much as a reference to "this guy put his own opinion down and didn't let anyone else do shit about it." It's rare to see that in an age of PEER REVIEWS and removing and reuploading scores and all that jazz.

On a side note regarding what garners certain scores, maybe the difference lies in how we personally rate things. Some of us might give more of a crap for the technical bits, some of us might look more at the overall experience. This is part of the problem, I think, with how we digest these reviews. If the person writing them doesn't fall into the same sort of mindset, we tend to lawl a tad too much.

Considering how much hate I have for organized reviews in general, it should also be noted I don't particularily AGREE with the 8.7. Just mentioning it was nice to see someone buck the trend for once.

I think we're at crossed purposes here Rotor, because I agree that everyone giving GTA IV perfect scores is bullshit. My point was, and still is, that to take a score like 10/10 to mean perfection is silly because nothing will ever be perfect. By that merit, I concede that giving a game 10.0 or 100% is unnecessary and probably does imply a game should be practically perfect.

I don't disagree. Skills put it better than I could, my issue has always been with the professional critics, not the game. However I feel about it is irrelevant, I think we all concede to what is good about GTAIV and what isn't for the most part.

I'm not taking a side on this either way, but I just wanted to clarify: Are you talking about IGN? Because EGM doesn't even use a 10 point scale, and even if you tried to translate their scale to a 10 point scale, an A+, A+, and an A does not equal a 10.

Ah, thanks, Rock. That was it, mah bad.

God, this is 8.8 all over again :tpg:

Here's my review:

"GTA IV is great. It has a few flaws, but delivers a lot of new ideas to the series. Check out this video and decide for yourself if you want to get it. Rated M for Mature.

Final Score: Worth Playing"

Is that a worth playing out of 5 or a worth playing out of 10.0?

Its worth playing.

However If I had to quantify a rating system, I'd have just 3 ratings:

AVOID, MEH, WORTH PLAYING:

Avoid - Do not purchase
Meh - Its okay, nothing special.
Worth Playing - Worth playing.

Simplifies things a lot. If you needed further clarification, that's what the rest of the review would be for.

That was the joke, DN. :(

Rotorblade is just mad because he got one of the copies that had freezing issues. Haha, you suck, Eric.

It doesn't get much better than this.

My favorite part is how people are still getting their panties in a twist trying to crusade about how GTA isn't a 10/10. Ok fine, you don't think it's great, we got the point ten pages ago, you can shut up now.