I started to believed that, as was mentioned above, that Xenosaga and Xenogears were never designed to be part of the same story, but the ending of xenosaga III really screws things up.

To many dialogues ended with the hope that "oh, we will find/see each other again!". While I could just take this as filler for a happy ending, it's desturbingly open ended. Add to this the fact that a large part of Shion's gang is still around and looking for Earth AND Kos-Mos/Chaos still exist. While the plot did wrap up, there are many questions left to be answered.

These questions are obviously left there to be a spark point for any future iteration of the mythos of Xenosaga to be continued. But I wish they had just ended everything! That would have been the final stake in the coffin of all the Xenosaga references being more then Fanservice!

God, now we can't say anything at all because there is more to be told. >_<

where hes with Mary in the past listening to the messiah/Jesus speak before crucifiction

Oh, Wilhelm. You are so funny.

And hey, Melisse/Melis started up Scientia, and she's in Pied Piper, so yeah.

Weltall as a boss? Not only does he use the same moves as before, but once you beat him, he attempts to activate System-Id, only to run out of juice and fly away. Awesome. :D

First off, as pointed out already I understand some specifics don't match, but it doesn't matter much when you consider the idea is still basically the same. Abel being U-DO in Xenosaga and Abel only being a contact of the Wave-Existence in Xenogears for example have different specifics, but the concept is still exactly the same. He has a relation to an upper dimensional being which gives him certain abilities which are virtually identical in both cases. With that said here are some things I've noticed.


First off, I agree that KOS-MOS and chaos have no direct connection to Xenogears. I don't even believe they are meant to be referenced in any way because both of them have returned to Earth during the Xenogears timeline. They simply are not part of the Xenogears story because of this. If I had to guess, they would show up in Episode VI which was to be when humankind returns to Earth and these two would be waiting there.

U-DO is the wave existence, not chaos. By his very nature chaos cannot be a higher dimensional wave existence as he is basically the anti-existence to such beings.

Abel and Nephilim ARE the Abel and 'Elly' from Xenogears. There are so many clues to this which far outweigh some of the specifics which don't match. First off, some of the obvious things are they share the same appearances. Secondly, the database specifically states that Abel is the anti-existence to Nephilim, the same exact situation Abel/Fei and Elly share in Xenogears where Fei is the Contact and Elly is his anti-existence(Antitype). Third, the scene at the end where Nephilim merges with Mary and Abel as a child looks upon here in awe is scene that is also in Xenogears.

As for Nephilim being Elly even though Elly was created by Deus, the information still fits. First Nephilim is simply a consciousness that exists in the UNM along with pretty much every other consciousness that isn't already linked to a physical body. So remember, the physical existence of Elly was first created by the Wave-Existence out of Abel's need for a mother. It's completely possible Nephilim's consciousness was simply given physical form.

Another supporting aspect that Nephilim and Elly are the same person is their respective roles. Mary is basically a guide to salvation. Elly grows into the exact same personally late in the Xenogears storyline while in her previous life as Sophia she again served as a spiritual figurehead which helped lead people to their salvation.

As for the Jin-Citan thing, again I think it is possible. The database specifics that Jins consciousness still exists in the UNM. Considering how both MOMO and KOS-MOS came to be, I think Deus did the exact same thing when creating the first humans in Xenogears. Physical bodies were created then consciousness from the UNM are infused into those bodies. This concept also makes me believe that Cain in Xenogears may very well be Wilhelm reborn while the Gazel ministry may be other major figureheads reborn from Xenosaga who would be aware of Lost Jerusalem.


Finally, I do also believe the Omega system is Deus. Consider a few things first. Everyone that actually knows of the true purpose of the Omega system is dead or not present. A group of humans come upon the thing and realize it is a system that has a tremendous amount of energy output. Obviously it would be easy enough to adapt the system to be some type of planet buster weapon thus the concept of Deus is born from the Omega system. Also, a few supporting ideas from Xenosaga include the fact that the Omega core in Abel's Ark has the exact same four floating orbs of energy that the Deus core has at the end of Xenogears. Not only that but the final form of Omega, Omega Metempsychosis looks very similar to the final form of Deus down having two small gears on each side of it.

So with that background this is my take on what happens from here and how Xenosaga and Xenogears are linked. I understand some things might be sketchy because I may be trying to directly link things. But small rewrites in a Xenogears remake would fix a lot of things.

First, chaos returns to Earth along with 80%+ of human population in the Universe. KOS-MOS also finds her way there floating in space which is somewhat sported by the ending. So basically these two are out of the storyline from this point. The Elsa crew also started their long journey to Earth so all of them are also out of the picture at this point.

So what we are left with is a handful of human survivors scattered around the galaxy and a non-functioning UNM which was pretty much the basis for a lot of human technology and advancement at the time. Time passes and the other main characters left over from Xenosaga slowly fade into history.

So humans are basically milling around for a while and due to the lack of the UNM possibly even slowly regressing in technology. Little by little the major 'relics of mankind are gathered,' the Merkabah, the ESes, Omega Universitas, even the Zohar and then the Omega system. Omega and the Zohar are eventually redeveloped into a weapon which threatens to destroy what little is left of humanity.

So on the verge of total destruction the humans decide to ban together and put all their resources into building the Eldridge, the final hope of humankind. Every piece of human collected history is integrated into it and the Omega system along with the Zohar are decided to be the power source for the huge ship being is the most powerful thing known to exist at the time. After it is done, the small amount of remaining humans are loaded up onto the thing and among them is Abel who is perhaps some type of reincarnation or even the original thrust out of phase by some event that also removes Omega and the Zohar from the same phase space.

Again some more milling around is done on the ship until eventually Abel finds his way into the core room making direct contact with both the Zohar and the Omega system. Due to his past relationship with both, crazy things start to happen such as U-DO (Wave-Existence) realizing Abel's will and bring Nephilim(Mary) into physical being. All the while the Omega system is also being effected by Abel's present and eventually becomes self aware.

And from there we are into the opening FMV in Xenogears and we all know what happens after that.

Just some extras thoughts to add not already mentioned: At the end of Xenogears Deus actually resurrects Abel's Ark, hence why the angel type Gnosis show up in both Xenogears and Xenosaga as well as to why the cores in the two games look similar.

I would say the only thing that really bothers me is the Anima relics. I can't really think of possible reason as to why they would show up again in Xenogears if they had already been reintegrated into chaos at the end of Xenosaga.

In gears, the Zohar is "occupied" with the Wave existence, which has been trapped in there for god knows how long. but in Saga, U-DO's just there, he doesn't really do anything, and he has no desire of being freed at the end of the machinations of his plans. Almost all of the events in Gears where orchestrated by the WE for that sole purpose. U-DO however, is not trapped,, he exists on a higher level, and the Zohar merely serves as a way for him to connect with mankind.

The ES would also be useless, since their main power source, the anima vessels, is gone. Even if they develop a new engine like they did for Asher, they still won't have the same power as the omnigears.

U-DO is a higher dimensional existence in a wave universe. It uses observation terminals to observe the dimensional Universe. It specifically states to Shion that it exists as it is observed.

The Wave Existence is a higher dimensional existence in a wave universe. It uses observation terminals to observe the dimensional Universe. It specifically states to Abel that it exists as it is observed.

Conclusion: They aren't the same because U-DO isn't trapped in the Zohar at the time.

Wait, what? Which one here is a wild assumption based on presented facts again?

Abel for example, are rather "wild" in the smallest sense of the word. Abel in Gears is a human boy. The only one who survives the Eldridge Crash and is killed later on by Cain. He's given eternal life through reincarnation by the Zohar. Abel being a regular human tasked with freeing the WE and Abel being a MANIFESTATION of the WE is too different to just connect like that, yes.

And most of your entire second spoiler block is speculation. There isn't enough data from either game to draw those conclusions. The same goes for the UMN link to Deus and how Citan ended up looking like he did. Citan wouldn't have parents if he was created by Kadamony directly and based off of Jin's conciousness, (assuming if your theory was true.) It just doesn't hold up based on what's confirmed in either story.

So "familiar faces that serve as important characters in Xenosaga" can translate to Nephilim, Abel, Jin, and "others are more like self-parodies" can translate into Hammer, that general with the X face paint and Big Joe.

Nope, in Xenogears it states the reason Abel survived the crash was because of the power he inherited from the WE. He was already beyond human before the crash.

And I find it funny that you dismiss all of the other connections because you can't replace "Abel was enhanced by the WE" with "Abel was given life by the WE." Really, exactly how much impact would this small change make? If U-DO somehow becomes trapped in the Zohar, would it not make sense to give his lower dimensional observation terminal the task of freeing it?

That's assuming he was born normally and his parents were foster parents. Or that his bloodline isn't capable of passing down certain traits like many other important figures in Xenogears. Of course either way would be 'wild speculation', but not any more than assuming he was born normally since it was never stated.