I don't know, Manny. My problem with the game just stems from stupid shit, like the inputs. I really like Setsuka, but Mitsurugi/Taki players can set up a few shoulder macros and do the kind of shit Setsuka needs precision Just Frame inputs for. I really don't like Namco's ideas for controls, it supports the whole "artificial barrier" idea entirely too well.

Whoa.. Honestly, I don't have the patience to check every move on every character for frame advantages. That's just time consuming and pointless over some victories in a game. This is waaay different from knowing how to block shots in a ball game..

I'd rather just have Taki jump around or roll to evade. Her attacks pretty much have a frame advantage over many characters--at least I've been winning with her.

Then again, I'm more on RPGs and MGS-type games. Pretty much got bored of SCIV after getting all honors.

Sure, it's not for everybody. I've only begun to study the game myself. I tend to find enjoyment in breaking the mechanics down in fighting games. It makes it more rewarding overall and entertaining when you're in high level competition. Even if you do well against a top level player in one or two matches, it doesn't feel anywhere near as satisfying as knowing WHY you did well.

Don't let the frame advantage stuff scare you. There isn't even a full list released yet. If you want to test some moves, get a friend to help. Go to training, pick the same character, set the dummy to controller, have the other person block whatever attack you want to test out, and then both of you do A,A (generally the fastest move in most character's arsenal). If you interrupt, you're at an advantage. If he/she interrupts, you're at a disadvantage. If you both hit at the same time, you're at 0 (no advantage or disadvantage).

That was a nuisance in Tekken also. Have you tried buffering? If you want a great place for info on your character and the game mechanics, here's a great spot: Soul Calibur Forums - Setsuka

Speaking of the testing part, I think you can actually do that on your own--with practice mode's recording function. Just record the command you want repeated and play it on the AI. (I, for one, don't have a second controller)

Another thing, I did heard about Sophitia's attacks have frame advantage (FA) over MANY characters. Not tested myself, though I do find her AA/BB attacks to be bloody fast.

Also, if you do manage to test all the FAs, I hope you'll make a list up when you have some free time :P

I mean, I'm sure with time I could get the timing for the presses down, but why bother when you can go to other characters who don't have nearly the amount of frustration to get their A-Game going? It's just a bad decision, it can be circumvented, but it really damages the playing field.

Like you said, it's bad game design. There's always those characters that get held down because of this, but the high comp admires people that still use those characters. (Lei from Tekken) I guess people put themselves through all that input practice for bragging rights. Any other characters you're interested in giving a shot?

This pad is driving me insane. When I start working in a week or two, I'll be grabbing the PS3 version. If you guys wanna hit me up, my PSN is MannyBiggz. Feel free to add me now if you wanna play Metal Gear Online, Tekken: DR, Unreal Tournament 3, or Eye of Judgment online.

I'm sticking with Setsuka, but I just felt like venting some frustration. Mitsurugi is still really good, I just can't fathom why it's a much friendlier learning curve on a character like that, whereas if you want to be different, you have to get run through the ringer of Just Inputs and Buffering.

The dumb ass EWGF type mentality Namco has always bothers the fuck out of me. I mean, to use an extreme, you'll see great players in Tekken 4 who don't play Jin... but when you go to where the money matters, it's still the fucking Jin show. Again, that's an extreme, but I think Namco could learn a thing or two from the ideas that David Sirlin was making prominent in the scene about inputs and artificial barriers.

What really hurts my perception of the game is that SC4 has a polarized scene, with people playing online and then people going head to head in person. I'm still waiting to see what the verdict is on SC4, whereas I could go to GGPO or VF5 and deal with entirely less hassle.

Floors 57-59 are driving me insane. I've never gotten this frustrated with a game before. I got the 1 million gold honor because I've been stuck there so long. I've been trying for 3 days and 3 times today I had Nightmare down to a sliver of health and he pulls something off out of nowhere to stop me from winning.

I wanna slap whoever came up with the Tower of Lost Souls.

Isn't Setsuka some cheap bitch. Last I remember, she had low attacks that came out in like, 6 frames.

It's kind of like complaining how Amy isn't strong enough.

Regarding all this frame advantage talk, there's this Mitsurugi move that I've been seeing a lot. Would I be correct to say that the move where he kicks you and then follows up with a large overhead slice gives frame advantage on the first hit upon block (if you know which move I mean). It looks like the kick leaves him open, but really, trying to do a quick poke after that always results in a counter hit with the meaty followup slash.

I finally managed to get a meager 10 wins online, although at the expense of 33+ losses :/ Seong-Mina sadly isn't cutting it for me nearly as well anymore as Voldo, since no one ever knows what to expect from him. I still have lots of trouble against decent Mitsurugis and Siegfrieds unfortunately.

You're retarded, though that's no surprise from you, Zeal-wannabe. Now, before you go fagging off at the mouth about "hah hah, I got you because I'm internets trolls", Just Inputs are required to get her useful and viable shit to come out, as are buffering 214 or 236 into some Just Frame nonsense.

But you already fucking failed the instant you threw out the word "cheap." The fuck outta here.

I think you're talking about 4K, B. I'm probably the only Mitsurugi player that never uses that move---whenever someone blocks it, I feel like I'm going to get slammed. I know that most players use that to mix things up between 2K, B, but I'd much rather fake the 2K to an extent of actually crouching, then using 1B, B.

I hate all of these fuckin' weeaboo characters that they've been introducing since Soul Calibur II. You know the ones I'm talkin' about---the ones with moves that look like they belong in a TEKKEN game. I wish I could put characters like Talim and Amy in a can, then piss in it. The soul still burns.

I'll go try to ask a question in between all these 'experts' - I read all around the place you have to buy characters for 4000 gold, yet I'm able to use them in story-mode and online without paying a single piece of gold (or so I believe). What's up with that?

Well, the weeaboo characters are unlocked once you beat them in Story (Joke) Mode, but I am pretty sure that the rest (Rock, Sophitia) have to be bought.

How exactly do you buy them then? I tried with both Sophitia and Lizardman to go online, and it worked. No questions asked, unless it's a silent agreement to take 4k gold of me, which I doubt.

Go to the character creation mode to buy characters. That's basically where you buy anything.

I bought them from character creation, didn't bother choosing them online if I didn't buy them so I didn't know there was a loop hole in selecting them.

When I went there it said the character was unavailable/selectable (picking the first two pre-made models), yet I could use them in Story/Arcade/Online.

At the character creation mode, during the character selection, choose the grayed out characters to buy them. You should get a prompt asking if you want to buy them for 4k gold.

And this may or may not be relevant, but do you happen to have the limited edition? I don't have it myself, but maybe those characters are free in the LE version.

I have the normal version, and after some playing in the story mode nearly all of the 'locked' models has the '*N' thing above them, as if I unlocked them.

Weird, I only get the 'N' after I bought them in creation mode. I'll go restart the game with a new game save and see if that happens after a couple of runs through story. Maybe your game data is corrupted, or glitched due to something you did..

[edit] Huh, weird. I played through story twice with Cass, and I only unlocked some side characters and Algol. Soph and Liz are still locked. This is strange. Can you actually buy those 'locked' characters, or use them in story?

Check out the upcoming DLC:

Animeruko's SC4 Images

This---oh, it's fucking rubbish. How do you even get off on this.

Why is this upcoming DLC? I already have those items. =\

Do you maybe have the Collector's Edition?

On the topic of the upcoming DLC... Oh no where would my gaming experience have been without the ability to make a maid. I have a feeling I'm not gonna care about any of the DLC until they add Vader.

Who's going to fork over $5 to Namco to be raped to unlock Yoda/Darth Vader?