Right, exactly, my gun was "stolen" from my "locked gun case" which "only I had the key to" and then it was used to "rob and kill and old lady" "completely without my knowledge".

Honestly!

The important part of the bill is whether or not exceptions are made for those whose guns have been reported stolen.

The idea of the bill is to crack down on gun show salesmen who sell off their merchandise without going through the proper channels. If the firearm gets tied back to Mountain Joe at the Farris County Gun Show, he should be held accountable for any crimes commited with said weapon.

Which all ties into my earlier point about illegal guns having come from at least somewhat legitimate sources. The criminals aren't making their own weapons, and they don't come out of thin air. They are stolen from, or sold by, the 'good' citizens. Edit, and good companies etc.

I think it's ironic that the argument that anti-gun control people are using is that they need their guns for protection when the lack of gun control is what is causing the need for protection in the first place.

Exactly...

But then again, the same could be said of the pro-gun side... just replace the word "neighbor" with "goverment"...

This is why I am very much in favor of laws that will help keep guns out of the hands of the "bad guys". I'm just opposed to laws that would also keep them out of the hands of upstanding citizens...

It's not just about protecting yourself from gun-toting crooks. I'd still use a gun if someone came at with with a knife or bat. And don't forget the big, bad goverment...

Also, it's about fun. I enjoy hunting and target shooting, and see no reason why I shouldn't be able to continue to do so...

I enjoy fishing with dynamite, and see no reason why...

I enjoy leaping nude out of airplanes, and see no reason why...

I enjoy playing loud rap music in the middle of suburban neighborhoods at 4 AM, and see no reason why...

I have a Twinky, I don't need a gun when I have a Twinky. Twinkies require no maintenance and have a shelf life of forever.

Why do I have a Twinky? Well, in case I get attacked by ninjas... FROM SPACE!

Twinkies are easily mass-produced and cause no harm to humans, well, if you ingest them they might. They're linked to obesity.

What I want to know is, how can the nation of supposed enlightenment and moral superiority which is supposed to be spreading THE FREEDOM all over the world be in such bad shape? We have all kinds of major health problems, a lot of it due to poor diets and the resulting SHELF-ASS. We also can't seem to stop killing each other. And, for all of our PURE HEART and CHASENED RESTRAINT why do we have a higher incidence of substance abuse than in other countries? It's a mystery.

Well, see, the FREEDOM necessarily includes the FREEDOM of corporations to operate without any meaningful regulation.

But what does that have to do with anything, Dr. Polemic McYellowfever?

It has to do with spread of controversy and asian lesbian pornography-- the cornerstones of a productive, cohesive society.

I think the obsession with possessing firearms is the same with the insistance upon owning ridculously large stationwagons known as SUVs. It's not that there's any particular reason to own one, it's simply another totem compensation for phallic inadequacy.

That's what I used to think. But it was explained to me that those that live in the US rockies *need* their SUVs. It was explained to me that before they were available people were unable to travel in those areas in the winter because mortal cars weren't up to the job. And since they *need* them, it justifies it for the rest of us. Seemed like bullshit to me, but the popular opinion was against me on that one.

Nobody needs an SUV. The people who settled those areas got there on fucking horses.

A while ago I was seriously considering purchasing a side-by-side shotgun and a .357 revolver in the event that the petrodollar crashes and the country descends into chaos. Or I could just have a small penis.

And what else was stolen when your home was burglarized?

The cynisism doesn't suit you, especially when your words are hollow and your logic fuzzy.

So if, say, someone steals your car and uses it during a Bank Robbery, you should be held accountable as well for providing the criminal the means to carry out their crime.

Fuzzier than 7-year-old Jello...

Unrelated rant... Anyway, I’m not interested in whether it’s guns that really kill people, or if it’s the people pulling the trigger. However, people who are injured (and not necessarily fatally) in gun related activity still turn up at emergency departments in hospitals. I think it’s something that’s often overlooked, but nonfatal firearm injuries create an enormous public health-care burden in the US. One published study (Cherry, Annest et al; Annals of Emergency Medicine 98) showed that nonfatal firearm injuries treated in hospital emergency departments outnumbered firearm fatalities by 3 to 1. In terms of child morbidity (only cos I’m on a Paediatric rotation), for every 1 child who dies in an unintentional shooting, Sinaur, Annest et al (JAMA 96) estimate 10 children are treated in hospital emergency rooms for non-fatal unintentional gunshot wounds.

Apologies for crappy referencing aside, the implications of firearms (and associated regulation/control etc) are not limited to just mortality and crime statistics. I think it’s safe to assume that a background level of criminal activity exists in all societies, so gun related death and crime will almost always be a feature no matter how restrictive the laws are. However, I’m led to believe that the areas where there could be some benefit to be had in terms of gun control are the non fatal injuries, and subsequent benefits of reallocation of trauma services… although that’s a completely different topic altogether.

Wow someone who actually uses references in PP, props to you Pez!

I agree that there should be some regulation and control as to who can own a firearm (i.e. people convicted of a felony, history of violence, etc) and I as a citizen am willing to pay the price (taxes) for those accidents for the continued right to own guns, though I believe if we spent that money on education of our youth about guns we wouldn't have so many accidents. Oregon for example has the second best funded education system in the United States yet they have made gun education in public schools a no-no with in the last 10 years. I personally recieved a hunters safety course in 6th grade that involved learning those basic skills on an air rifle. We all took guns very seriously and didn't play around with them.

Whoa. You're saying that gun education used to be a regular class in schools until recently? I thought you were proposing something new which hadn't been in place before.

Pez, do you have the numbers on your study? Like, how many are unintentionally injured, and how many die? The ratio is interesting, but it'd be even better to have the rough totals.

Yes this isn't something new... They were two classes if I remember correctly, one focused on hunters safety with a firearms (we used air rifles but it makes the point) and I believe they had another classes that more focused on bow hunting/safety and the techniques in field dressing animals. This was in middle school.

Everyone who took those classes came out very knowledgable about the subject because we were all VERY engaged in what was being taught. These classes from what I could gather had been taught long before I ever went to that school. The schools in the area had similar programs as well until it was stopped state wide :/

That's interesting I'd never heard of anything like that. I'd think we'd have had something similiar down in Oklahoma as predominant as hunting is here and yet there's nothing like it. Then again we have a terrible education system. It's a good idea I admit but it at the very least needs to be combined with a fairly strict screening process for gun buying.

Oregon has a terrible education system as well, this is the reason why those classes are no longer taught.

Makes sense. This is, after all, a time when music and art aren't taught in some schools. In such places that don't teach those classes, I doubt Gun Safety 101 even merits discussion by the board.

Well, being from Texas, I naturally have a pro-gun bias. But I believe gun control is too weak. I also believe that it's sort of missing the point. Allow me to explain.

Many people should not be allowed to have guns. Background and psychological tests need to be more thorough and the process required to own a gun needs to be much longer and more exhaustive. This should help keep guns out of the wrong hands. But criminals can still obtain guns illegally and even if they can't, those intent on murder will just use something else. The real problem is not that we're not doing a good job of keeping guns away from the wrong people. The real problem is that there is an astronomical number of bad dudes out there, compared with crime statistics from the first half of the twentieth century. Corresponding with that is a rise in people who feel aimless in life, the invention of television and mass media, rise in drug use, hippies, irresponsible parents, and a rise in atheism. I don't believe in coincidences. This is all connected and the end result is that there are many people who have little moral guidance and to whom life is cheap and may be taken from someone else. I could write a dissertation on this, but just to illustrate my point I'll give a few brief notes.

Television: many studies have shown alarming spikes in crime that correspond to the introduction of television (especially modern TV) to a region that previously did not have it.

Atheism: When people do not believe there is a god, then all law becomes man-made and subject to revision, as opposed to the eternal law one would expect from a perfect deity. Furthermore, atheists do not see a fellow man as created, they see him as an advanced animal, just a monkey that talks. As a consequence, human life becomes cheap. As a side note, there is no such thing as a true athiest. No matter how much someone tells himself he is an atheist, if you throw him into a foxhole with bullets and shrapnel flying inches from his face, he will yell out to every god he ever heard of to save his life. Why is that?

Poor education: There is not only a poor academic educational system, but teachers also often fail to instill values, ethics, and morals into children. Considering that children spend more waking hours at school than at home, this is a big mistake. Apathetic parents don't help the situation.

Bottom line is the world is fucked up and that's the real reason guns are such a problem. That being so, I would like a gun for protection along with some unarmed combat training and some prayers. I live in Houston and I've noticed that most violent incidents involving firearms are committed by either blacks or Hispanics. With the blacks, it isn't hard to figure out why. Just go listen to rap. Hispanics have a thing with gangs so a lot of kids get pulled into bad company

lol I'm suprised that someone hasn't screamed bigot at you gunner k2.

I have to ask you this, what happens if they put your testing system into effect for buying guns and it comes to light that by their psychological tests they say you should not be able to own guns? Are you still going to take the word of a some head doc that you are unfit to own a gun?

Your ideas are illogical, putting people though a test to see if they are stable is not the answer because every test can be cheated on. All that does it make it harder for myself or any other sane intelligent American to own a gun. That doesn't keep it out of the hands of crazies because they like criminals will always have a source of such items.

I have no problem with back ground checks to make sure criminals aren't buying guns but psychological tests? Seems like a wasted effort.

What the hell I mean really? While I agree that more rigorous background checks and licensing requirements are the solution not outright banning guns most of that posts contains some of the most batshit insane backwoods redneck indoctrinated bullshit I've ever heard. Bloody texans.

So do I and while you are correct that the majority of the murders in Houston are black on black crime, it's not the result of rap music, its an entire cultural degradation in the black community from resons too numerous to list. The influx of 150,000 mostly black folks from New Orleans doesn't help much. Go a few miles north to Montgomery county and you'll find the majority of murders are committed by white meth heads..a huge problem in rural Texas. Hispanics...for their large percenatge of Houston's population, are relatively peaceful, most of the crime there being of the domestic variety.

I agree, to a certain point anyway. There are already some psychological requirements in a way though, aren't there? Like, if a court finds you legally incompetent/insane, doesn't that prevent you from obtaining a gun or at least put a legal roadblock in your way?