If I don't get them by the current deadline, I don't mind dropping them. I mean, it'd be a shame to lose two players from the tournament, but if it can't be helped, then I guess it can't be helped.

Josiah vs. Generic Badass
 

You actually would have won if you hadn't switched out at the very end like you did. I'll explain it to you in a PM.

But luck was definitely on your side through most of these. Waking up on the first turn after being put to sleep, two Quick Claw activations in a row, a critical Quick Attack right at the end, and lord knows how many times you were able to hit with Air Slash before it finally missed.

Excellent matches!

I owe the critical Quick Attack to the fact that that pokemon was holding a Scope Lens. A shame it didn't quite do the job.

Well, it sure did a damn fine job of making things interesting! I will admit, I definitely got lucky at a few spots in there.

Sorry for the delay, but the fire team is fully functional!! I am ready for 6v6 matches and I'll be up all night ready for matches.

Alrighty, radcliff. I want a rematch with you possibly later tonight. It seemed a bit unfair sweeping the same team with one Pokemon. :(

i am ready and waiting for anybody to battle me. Just PM me or start the battle up.

About this tournament:

Hey - I just saw this thread and got interested in it. I would be interested in joining the next tournament, but unfortunately I don't have Nintendo DS or Pokemon Pearl yet. :( I'm behind on video games because I decided to spend all my time to actually completing all the video games I had from the last generation of video games. The most technologically advanced piece of hardware I have is a thin PS2. :eagletear:

Since today is the deadline, I made a little chart for everyone to see, to make it easier on everybody to see where people stand.

Defense number means the difficulty of the defending Pokemon from the attacker's ongoing assault. The higher the number, the harder it is. The offense number is how easy it is for the attacking Pokemon to damage the defending Pokemon. The higher the number, the easier it is.

The natural tensity number is the defense number minus the offense number. This shows the average difficulty of winning or losing a fight. If the number is positive, it means the difficulty was harder than normal, while if the number is negative, it means the difficulty was easier than normal.

Then I show the official score based off of the Kairyu's rules, and at the bottom shows who is moving to the final four to compete.

I took the time after that to develop a 'neutralized score' which calculates both the official score and the natural tensity number to project a score based off of fairness to Pokemon with less advantages this time around. Like with the official score, at the bottom I calculated the neutralized top four of this tournament round.

Since I cannot post images (as I do not have enough posts as of yet), I must provide a link to this chart.

ImageShack - Hosting :: pokemongymbattlerstourndq7.jpg

Kairyu - feel free to use this as you wish. If need be, I will update this to suit any official battles that occur today.

About next tournament:

As for the next tournament - while I cannot enter it yet, I do have some suggestions, since I have played and beaten Pokemon Red, Yellow, Gold, Crystal, and Ruby.

I remember as a kid, playing the official Pokemon card game growing up. Most decks had two types of Pokemon, to make things balanced and to add complexity to the game.

So, I'm proposing a new idea - Gym Leaders with two different types of Pokemon. But there is a catch - each of your Pokemon's primary must be one of those types. The primary type, or type one - is more associated with the Pokemon and the Pokemon usually has more moves of that type.

To make things interesting, instead of randomly deciding who is going to be what, allow everybody to choose their two types individually. First come, first serve. Oh, and if someone calls out, say, Dark/Poison, another person cannot call Poison/Dark. But if someone calls out Dark/Poison, another person could call Dark/Steel. If you call Dark/Steel, all your Pokemon's primaries must be either Dark or Steel, and cannot be all Dark or all Steel. As an added rule, if your two types have at least one Pokemon that is both of them, you must use at least use one of those Pokemon.

To make it fair, use my defense/offense numbers and the natural tensity score to calculate in for the final score, and as of before, have wins worth 2 points, ties 1, and loses 0.

Like before, have up to nine playable Pokemon, but no less than six. You may have two legendary Pokemon, but there are rules you must follow in order to actually use them. The only time you will be able to use a legendary Pokemon is during six Pokemon per team matches (more rules apply here) and tie-breakers.

Matches will go as such: in the first match each gym leader will use six Pokemon each. Both gym leaders may not use his or her legendary Pokemon until the five others have been KO'ed. The second Pokemon match will consist of five Pokemon each. The third match four, the fourth match three, the fifth match two, and the final match just one Pokemon may be used on each side. If the match was an even 3-3, then the game goes into tie-breaker mode, where each gym leader uses one out of the two of their legendary Pokemon to determine the final outcome of the match.

After all this is done, the final score will be calculated and each player will be ranked. If, by chance, two players mysteriously got equal scoring, even after the tensity score was calculated into the final score, then they go into a tie-breaker mode with one of their legendary Pokemon.

To expand on this tournament's final round, the next tournament will feature everybody, not just the top four. If there are nine people in the tournament, it will go like such: rank 1 vs rank 2;rank 3 vs rank 4'; rank 5 vs rank 6; rank 7 will then face either rank 5 or rank 6 in the next round.

There would be time limits to this all, so this doesn't run forever - but depending on how large this gets, it will either expand or contract the deadline dates. Kairyu could probably manage that himself.

And another thing: gym leaders next time around will not be referred to, as an example, the fire/ground gym leader. If someone picks fire/ground, they got to make a name that combines both types into a cool sounding gym leader name.

So - like my ideas? Could they be improved? Or are they just stupid altogether? Feedback and suggestions for the next possible tournament would be appreciated (especially from Kairyu).

Wow, that's a lot of brainstorming in one post! I'd really like to continue burning the midnight oil and discuss this but I am dead tired right now. It is 1:45am here after all.
Well let me digest this info and I'll see what I think in the morning =).

Holy... That IS a lot to digest. Sounds a little confusing. To be completely honest, all the 'defense numbers' and 'natural tensity' and all that totally fly right over my head. I have no idea what they mean or how they were determined. :eagletear:

As for finishing this tournament, I STILL have to battle the same three leaders. The issue with today is, that it's not only Father's Day, but also my grandmother's birthday, so I'll be going out to a sort of dinner thing at my aunt's place. I'm not sure when I'll be home, but if I had to guess, I'd say around 8pm EST, at which point I'll be able to do some matches, most likely. Ship me a PM [I missed you yesterday, Rad] and we'll arrange something.

Yeah, that was a lot of brainstorming. I still don't completely understand where the numbers of coming from, but the only thing that I keep thinking looking at that whole thing is:

Did I really do that bad in this tournament?

Anyway, given that I don't have to fight Black Mage, all that's left on my list is to fight Josiah and get a re-match against radcliff.

Additional Spam:
Regarding my schedule, I'll be free after 7 PM EST. Hit me up with a PM anytime.

You haven't fought me yet, but at this point I think it's just fair to say you'd win and forfeit the match to you. My team hasn't won a single round against anybody.

From your chart, Sane Brain, I'm only finding one aspect of it possibly unfair. Granting absolutely no points to someone who supposedly dominates over a certain matchup doesn't seem right. We only have one battle that is affected by this (Kairyu vs. Black Mage), but making a battle completely pointless to play for one side is a bit much. I dunno. I haven't had a match affected by the scoring on that degree, so I'll leave it up to Kairyu's and Black Mage's discretion.

As for the second Gym Leader tournament, I'll need some time to read through all of your rules thoroughly before reserving judgment. There's definitely plenty of thought put into this, and I'd hate to see something possibly awesome go to waste.

I've got some things to take care of and then I should be ready to battle around 8:30 on.

Yo Radcliff, not sure if you go my last massage but if you want faster responses you will have to hunt each individual down through PM and or whichever IM service they might be using. That's how I got my matches done quickly.

A chart like that would be awfully useful once everyone has done their matches. But the way it stands now the results look a bit lopsided. I think for now I'll just stick with the simple yet effective, "add up all the wins/loss points for each player." And make the placing list from there.

As for the next tournament idea. That's not a bad variation (or improvement even) but how will that stop players from all picking combos like Dragon/[insert alternate type here]. Granted there are only so many decent Dual type dragons to choose from but if a person wants a strong sweeper he or she will pick a dragon. So we may get a lack of variation there. Other than that small issue I wouldn't mind participating in a tournament like that.

...

One solution I thought of, but it's a bit far fetched. Is allow people to pick that type combination (ie, dragon/water pokemon) but also impose certain move limits. Something like you can only learn moves that are of that type. So if you pick Normal/Rock you can use moves like Stone Edge and Body Slam. But not Ice Beam :3. Same goes for non-damage moves.

But like I said, it's a little out there and might require a bit of time to prepare for.

Perhaps a limit on how many times a type could be chosen by any participant would work?

Also, a lottery might help determine who gets to choose first? Naturally, the first person might choose Dragon, because it's a potent type. But if each player has no guarantee of making first pick, then he/she will have to come up with an alternate plan. This might prevent a "OMG DRAGON/GROUND!!" blitz right off the bat.

This tourney had a lot of constrictions, mostly because adhering to one type is in itself restrictive. I'd not like to mire the next one down with a bunch of hard-to-remember rules for the sake of superimposing someone's concept of balance onto the whole thing. If there's going to be imbalances (and it's Pokemon, so that's somewhat inevitable), all players should have access to them, or at least an equal initial opportunity to be the one who benefits most (i.e. how I.C. lucked out with Dragons) from the imbalance.

Excessive rulesmongering takes the fun out of competition.

It suddenly makes it seem like a normal 6v6 tournament seem peachy.

Actually, and even easier idea for the next tournament.

Normal 6v6 Doubles tournament. I don't ever recall doing a doubles tournament here. Or maybe we have, but my memory fails me horribly.

I'm sorry, I should have been more clear to what I was actually talking about with defense/offensive numbers, and natural tensity.

Bellow results there is a \ division line between actual and projected. This means actual results are shown horizontally by going up and down through the names. The projected results are shown vertically by going left and right through the names. Another reason there is that division line is to show the difference between the actual results, which are shown with a color, and the projected results (what the odds of winning are, due to weaknesses and strengths of each type of Pokemon), shown with a number.

Take, for example, Crash Landon. He's the psychic gym leader. His Pokemon is good against some types, and bad against others. An example in which his Pokemon are naturally good against would be Sousuke's fighting type Pokemon. If you look at the projected results row and go to Crash Landon, going down from that column you will see Crash Landon's projected results number against Sousuke; a 2. A 2 means he has a good chance of winning, because his Pokemon, psychic type, will be much more likely use psychic attacks that will cause double the damage that it would usually do in a normal situation. Because of this, Crash receives a 2 in that column - and his cumulative offense score increases by 2 as well. In the same instance, Sousuke, being the defendant against those crushing psychic blows to his Pokemon, now has increased his defense score by 2.

Now look at Sousuke's projected results against Crash. His number is only a .5 because his moves only do half the damage they normally do. This correlates to Crash's defense number battling Sousuke being .5, because the difficulty in which defending against Sousuke's attacks has been naturally reduced in half, due to their two types of Pokemon in play.

Look at Crash's row. The defense number on Crash, an 8.5, is the added numbers of all the defending numbers that Crash battled with. Sousuke gave him .5 + DarkMage gave him 1 + Kairyu gave him 1 ... and so on. The higher the defense number, the more naturally difficult the matches are, as you are on the defense on more effective types against your Pokemon.

Now look at Crash's column. The offense number of Crash, an 8, is the added numbers of all the offensive numbers that Crash battled with. Sousuke gave him a 2 + DarkMage gave him a 2 ... and so on. The higher the offense number, the more naturally easier the matches are, as you are on the offense on more effective types fighting against their Pokemon.

Since Crash's defense number is slightly higher than his offense number, his difficulty in matches was slightly above average. Natural tensity number is calculated by simple taking the defense number and subtracting that with the offense number.

Look at this link for more information:

Serebii.net Games - Type MatchUp

I expanded the original chart into this:

ImageShack - Hosting :: pokemongymbattlerstourniu7.jpg

The win ratio is calculating wins divided by total amount of games.

The neutralize win ratio is calculating points total by the neutralize score divided by the total amount of points possible (such as 10 for battling in 5 games).

And finally, the total rank score takes the four previous ranks, official score, neutralize score, win ratio, and neutralize win ratio, and adds up all the ranking numbers from that and produces a new, fair-minded ranking system.

Actually, there is another battle like this - Crash Landon vs. Chaotic, which is even more dramatic because not only are psychic attacks useless against dark types, but dark type moves are double-effective when attacking a psychic Pokemon.

But actually, the example that you provide is wrong. Since the baseline for all attacks is 1, and every game is worth two points, if Black Mage wins, and he did, he would still gain 1 point for beating Kairyu.

The only two types of Pokemon battles that you could apply your example for would be dark vs. psychic and electric vs. ground. But since there is a near-impossibility for an electric Pokemon to win against ground, or a psychic Pokemon to win against dark (I would really like to know how Crash won against Chaotic), it is only fair that these battles do not count for ground or dark type gym leaders. The odds are so overwhelming against psychic and electric that I would find it hard not to give them extra points for winning against these two types.

I created the idea of modifying the official point system out of the difficulty of Pokemon types winning based off of my guess that the reason why you didn't allow people to choose their own types was because of too many advantages or disadvantages against certain types of Pokemon.

Results look lopsided? How is that? I attended to make the neutralized score to prevent this thing from happening - since it is more lopsided without the system. The neutralized score system prevents a group of people to be listed as the same against each other. In the official scoring system, four people are tied for forth place, among a tie with two people in third. In the neutralized system, there is only two tied at two different places on the bottom.

Coming from an unbiased source (since I am not an active participant of this tournament), I agree much more with the neutralized scores than the official ones. Most of them aren't even that much different from the original - they just show the advantages and disadvantages that certain Pokemon play in battle. I believe someone is much more skillful if he or she can defeat five out of nine enemies all whose type is strong against his or her type, rather than someone with the same record and defeats Pokemon only average against his or her type. It's a much harder battle with a type disadvantage!

But the neutralized system was pretty easy to do this time around. If the next tournament uses two types of Pokemon, the equations will be much more complex. That's where I come in. I'm simply addicted to math, and doing these kinds of problems. If you accept the neutralized system, Kairyu, I promise I will give you more accurate results regarding the actual skill level of every gym leader that plays in this tournament. In essence, Kairyu, I want you to make me an official unbiased 'referee' of the next tournament.

The actual number of dragon Pokemon is quite small. Many of them are legendary Pokemon, and both you and I agree on either not allowing them or restricting them so they may only be used to balance things out. There are four fully evolved dragon type 1 Pokemon to choose from that are not legendary.

If this hasn't been made a rule already, it should be. Allow only one Pokemon of a particular species to be put on a roster. In essence, you couldn't have six Dragonites defeat everybody but the ice trainer. (Also - I simply think that dragons are overrated, I personally would not pick them myself if I could participate in this event myself.)

While I do not particularly disagree with the idea of the rule you stated later in the second paragraph, I think these tournaments are becoming excessively ruled by their rules themselves. I think a major skill in Pokemon is the ability to choose Pokemon that can have variation in their attacks - and removing or limiting this would be destroying a core foundation of this skill.

I don't particularly like the idea of limiting a type that could be chosen, simply because if someone is facing another whose one type is weak against and other type is strong - by limiting the types that could be chosen it would greatly reduce the amount of strategy that both players could use.

I wouldn't mind a lottery to decide who chooses first. I mean, I guess that would make it fair. I'm in agreement with this one. However, I doubt this will make any great impact if there is indeed a choice of two different primary types - as there are over a hundred choices to choose from.

I whole-heartly agree that rules bring fun down, especially if there are a lot of them.

I believe that the sleep-clause this tournament had should be removed for the next tournament. I think this is a major reason why DarkMage lost all five of his battles, because one of the major abilities of bug Pokemon is the ability to sleep other Pokemon. Without this ability, bug Pokemon are bound to get squashed.

Not only are dragon types more restricted to legendary Pokemon, as I stated earlier, but if my system of an official final neutralized score came into effect, it would greatly reduce the advantage that dragon Pokemon have against other types of Pokemon. It would put the calculated effect of dragon's resistance to fire/water/electric/grass attacks into the formula.

This could be a really neat idea combined with the idea of gym leaders having two primary types of Pokemon. A rule could be in place that states that you must have one of each type of Pokemon in play until you are down to one Pokemon left. Might be a little excessive on the rules side - but it would definitely make things interesting...

Hmm... This one was an interesting battle.



Well that was unexpected.

Crash vs. radcliffe13!!



Radcliff put up a good fight. This was not the easiest match I had, as he made sure to bring one specific Pokemon that was both fast and very resistant to my Psychic attacks. I had to work to remove that thing.

Josiah vs. radcliff13
 

:mad:



So I win against him once, and lose against him one. What does that equal out to? <_<

And I totally forgot that I never faced Ozzie yet. Oh well. If you can face me within the next five hours, that'd be great.

I was Poison not bug. The only one of my Pokemon that had sleep was Vileplume. I lost cause I overestimated the value of some of my Pokemon and didn't take the time to get any Nidos raised for the tournament.

I was at work when you posted. I work night crew 9:30pm-6am EST. That's why I was trying to get my matches done on my days off. You and Radcliff are the only guys I haven't played but I think it's safe to say you guys would probably have beat me.

Okay, well, I got home late last night, and went straight to bed. :eagletear:

Today's Monday, and I've vowed that I'm not going to do ANYTHING. Maybe I'll go to the store for something cool to drink. Other than that, I'll be home all day, in hopes that I can finish my battles.